BillBingham2
Registered User
Traveling lite? Fujifilm XE family, Ricoh GR Family
agentlossing
Well-known
I found the same issue, eventually. I'd had plenty of experience with a DSLR before I came across the GR cameras, but in the days when I was timid and felt like I needed a tiny camera to snap furtive street photos with, I gravitated to the GR (after Micro Four Thirds). Actually composing intentionally on the street, though, it's very hard to see the GRIII LCD.
Now, I can see the value of a smaller mirrorless, but it's hard to beat the functional utility and reliability of a DSLR.
BillBingham2
Registered User
You could also use a 28mm Bright Line finder (I did) on bright days. Or an old Sports Finder from Leica or Nikon (Did this too). Sports finder slips in your bag/pocket with a very thin profile. The bright line, perhaps an old 35mm Kodak Film canister trimmed to allow it to slide in.
Yes AL, functionality and perhaps reliability of a DSLR aren't the same, but you could house six or eight GRs in one DSLR space. I'm not a big one on functions, bells, and whistles. I guess I'm just an old Konica IIIm and Visitor 192 guy in a digital world. I'm happy with that level of functionality and size.
B2 (;->
Yes AL, functionality and perhaps reliability of a DSLR aren't the same, but you could house six or eight GRs in one DSLR space. I'm not a big one on functions, bells, and whistles. I guess I'm just an old Konica IIIm and Visitor 192 guy in a digital world. I'm happy with that level of functionality and size.
B2 (;->
agentlossing
Well-known
Not knocking the GR by any means, it's a wonderful camera. I think the pull towards a DSLR for many is the desire for a more robust, weighty, substantive tool. They're different experiences but both quite valuable.
DownUnder
Nikon Nomad
As always, different strokes/different folks.
I have four Nikon DSLRs (don't ask, please) and two Fuji mirrorless. Plus an assortment of other odd-brand digitals. Never mind the film cameras, this isn't about analog. Some other time.
I use my Nikons about equally with my Fujis. For the former I have 10 D lenses, bought when I had more money than sense.All little used, now languishing at home. At my age, carrying a 300/4.5 in a backpack is akin to going walking with a cement block on my back. The Nikons come out when I photograph architecture or landscapes. Slow stuff.
My Fujis do their best work as action cameras. They are light and quick and so easy to change settings. The image quality I got from a well used XE2 I bought from a friend some years ago, astounded me. Ditto a Lumix GF1 that came my way as a gift. What it does with 12 MPs is impressive.
Each and every camera in my arsenal has its place and its own duties. Why I own so many is, of course, a topic for another thread.
I have four Nikon DSLRs (don't ask, please) and two Fuji mirrorless. Plus an assortment of other odd-brand digitals. Never mind the film cameras, this isn't about analog. Some other time.
I use my Nikons about equally with my Fujis. For the former I have 10 D lenses, bought when I had more money than sense.All little used, now languishing at home. At my age, carrying a 300/4.5 in a backpack is akin to going walking with a cement block on my back. The Nikons come out when I photograph architecture or landscapes. Slow stuff.
My Fujis do their best work as action cameras. They are light and quick and so easy to change settings. The image quality I got from a well used XE2 I bought from a friend some years ago, astounded me. Ditto a Lumix GF1 that came my way as a gift. What it does with 12 MPs is impressive.
Each and every camera in my arsenal has its place and its own duties. Why I own so many is, of course, a topic for another thread.
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SVSV
Newbie
OP, since you mentioned Canon DSLRs and the 24mm pancake I have written a few thoughts about my experience with the system that may or may not be of help. My use case is landscape/travel/occasional street.
I was a film holdout but went from a Leica M3 to, unexpectedly, a Canon 40d with the 24mm stm. As great as the M3 was, my photos are more or less the same and it's way more fun when there isn't a huge expense involved per frame. These old DSLR bodies are affordable and don’t feel outdated in use if you pick one from the right year of the curve. The colours really are different to modern cameras and the battery lasts forever. A 7d ii will work fine if that's what you want but you can go way cheaper if needed and still get nice photos. It's a cheap experiment anyway even if it doesn't work for you.
Canon 24mm stm pancake (38.4mm equiv.) notes:
- Nothing to complain about image quality wise. Noticeable falloff wide open but Canon DPP/whatever software you use for editing corrects this if wanted.
- Hood makes no difference. I don't use one.
- Tiny.
- Front element coating seems more prone to marks than usual but I bought mine used so maybe someone had already messed with it by cleaning it with something harsh.
- AF is accurate (probably partly body dependent) but doesn't have the fast zip to focus you feel with say a pro level Nikon DSLR with an af-d prime.
- Having this pancake prime available makes the cheaper canon aps-c bodies worth using.
- A LOT of camera for $100 or less.
- Great build quality, ergonomics, control layout. Everything feels responsive.
- Canon DPP software is free and decent.
- AF system is reliable if you give it a chance and don't expect it to focus on a flat, blank white wall, if you know what I mean.
- Colours are great, especially with minor editing.
- Resolution is just enough. It's fun to try and wring the best out of it. Not quite at 35mm Imacon scan levels but better than most minilab scans.
- Dynamic range is lacking compared to a modern camera. Not an issue most of the time for me. Might be for contrasty street stuff though.
- Metering is not as reliable as the Nikon matrix metering in nikon rival dslrs. Expect the occasional really under/overexposed shot, mostly under. With my shooting style I never review the image after capture and only take one photo of each thing or angle. This means a good photo here or there is a loss. If you're one to stop and review the histogram and reshoot then it's a non-issue. The meter isn't consistently off though so you can't just add ⅓ or whatever ec and leave it.
- Viewfinder feels big enough. Clear and bright.
- Up to iso1600 is usable but I don't mind some noise/'grain'. I rarely need more than 800. Turn off the in camera NR and just do it in raw as it slows the camera down, same goes with highlight tone priority. That said, with both on and the saturation and sharpness cranked you can get some nice jpegs. On that note, the LCD shows the photos looking more saturated than they are. If it looks a bit over the top on the LCD it's probably still fine.
- It's fun to use a camera that's stills only.
- Having the top lcd and external buttons for evrything means, at least with how I shoot, the rear screen is almost never needed. This lends a bit of film camera feeling in use.
- The files never get that super crisp modern digital look, regardless of what you do sharpening wise. In fact if you really lay on the unsharp mask things start to look worse. Go light handed and the files have their own look. I think this is a positive. It sort of looks like Sensia 100 if you ever used that or maybe some of the slower Kodak Portra stocks. The clarity is there, the colour is there, but it's hard to pick out an area where the edge acuity looks like modern digital.
- The shutter and mirror feel well damped.
You might like to also consider:
- 450d. Very inexpensive. Same nice colour. Lighter but plasticky and doesn't have the nice control layout. Does have a physical ISO button though.
- 100d. Tiny. More than good enough image quality. Viewfinder feels small. Build quality is a step or three down compared to the 40d.
- 6d. Since you mentioned the 5d ii. This is noticeably smaller and lighter in hand than the 5d series even if the specs on paper don't seem much different. If you want to give the 40mm stm a go this is a great body to do it with. Whether any of the canon 28/35 primes are appealing to you I don't know but none of them are pancake size. The bodies are undervalued and the colour is great but lacking some ‘grit’. Clean at high iso if you need it.
Archiver
Veteran
My first DSLR was the Canon 30D, and I still use it today. It has taken thousands and thousands of images and is still functioning well. The 5D Mark II was my second DSLR, and that is chugging along, too. If you want solid and robust, you can't go wrong with a mid range DSLR from about 10 years ago, assuming it hasn't been abused.
For a smallish lens, look for a Canon 20mm f2.8 EF, it is not a pancake, but very small. The copy I tried was incredibly sharp, too. On a smallish DSLR like the 500 or 550D, the combination is surprisingly compact, and you'll have a 30mm equivalent field of view. This combination should be available for under 600 euros if you look in the right places. For a bigger and sturdier body, get a 60D or 70D. Look around at secondhand listings to see going prices for cameras within this range.
The very first DSLR I used was the Canon 400D, and I'm honestly tempted to get one again for nostalgia. It was very small, probably the same size as a Panasonic G9, and took awesome pictures. They can be found for around AUD $120 today. The 400D is old enough to take CF cards, so be careful about which model you choose.
For a smallish lens, look for a Canon 20mm f2.8 EF, it is not a pancake, but very small. The copy I tried was incredibly sharp, too. On a smallish DSLR like the 500 or 550D, the combination is surprisingly compact, and you'll have a 30mm equivalent field of view. This combination should be available for under 600 euros if you look in the right places. For a bigger and sturdier body, get a 60D or 70D. Look around at secondhand listings to see going prices for cameras within this range.
The very first DSLR I used was the Canon 400D, and I'm honestly tempted to get one again for nostalgia. It was very small, probably the same size as a Panasonic G9, and took awesome pictures. They can be found for around AUD $120 today. The 400D is old enough to take CF cards, so be careful about which model you choose.