gdmcclintock
Well-known
I find this discussion quite interesting. Beginning about three years ago, I went folder crazy and obtained several of cameras mentioned: Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x9; Nettar 6x9; Welta Weltax 6x6, Weltur 6x9, Weltini 35mm, Voigtlander Bessa II, Moskva 6x9, etc. I have run many rolls through them and all are very good, each with its own personality if I may be a bit anthropomorphic. Now I struggle against the temptation to sell most of these fine cameras as I cannot afford to use them all and hate to see them freeze up from lack of use. Perhaps in the not too distant future they will be found in the RFF classifieds. -George
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
The real difference between Ikonta and Bessa style struts is that the Bessa is held straight by a toggle type linkage - while originally very rigid, this gets relatively limp once there is play in the joints, and puts strain on the joints, so that wear develops faster than on the less strained linkage of the Ikonta.
But it is no poor design, nor poor materials - Bessas with the E-Bessa type linkage were built for sth. like 25 years, even though Voigtländer had a alternative, less strained four strut design on the parallel Perkeo (where the toggle struts on the preceding Bessa 66 had had a locking issue) which they might have switched to if the E-Bessa design had been a source of customer dissatisfaction or excessive warranty repairs. The amount of failures (and repairs) cannot have been critical over more than two decades - which is rather better than the film counter issues on the Super Ikonta line...
Sevo
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literiter
Well-known
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
For the last time, the camera I am referring to is a prewar Bessa (Zweiformat, Anastigmat Skopar number 11020xx, if you must know). It shows no dings, bends, scratches, or other signs of a drop that could have bent the folding mechanism, and the struts themselves lock properly. Yet, the lens is about 5 degrees out of parallel. I invite you to take a look around ebay at any given time, you will see several Voigtländer folders of that era which have the same issue. Which -- to get back to the point of all this, which you have long since lost sight of -- I was making the OP aware of. That's all.
are you suggesting the camera's metal simply melted into a bent position that didnt allow it to close
More evidence that you haven't actually read my post. The camera closes fine, the problem is that it doesn't open all the way, hence the lens is not parallel to the body.
And yes, I am suggesting that the metal "melted" (if you want to be extra dramatic about this, I don't). It's stamped and painted metal, and there's no rigid side-to-side connection. I find it entirely plausible that 70 years of use and spring tension can easily distort this arrangement without an impact. It is obvious that Voigtländer used higher grade materials, combined with a crosswise yoke design, in the postwar Bessas.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
The problem with this old stuff is; you take as many pictures of them as with them.
Too many photos of beautiful old folders? Uh... that's not really a problem for me.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Let's not get ridiculous here. Neither Bessa RFs, nor any other cameras, will melt without the application of a torch. Deformed by repeated mild impact? Possibly, but it would have to have seen extraordinarily heavy use by someone who let the front spring open without catching it, something most people who would have occasion to use the thing that heavily would know not to do. In any case, wear and deformation from use would tend to loosen the mechanical assembly and make it easier to open, not harder. It is FAR more likely that it has been dropped. BTW, dropping a camera does not always leave visible signs. If you drop a camera on a rug, on hard dirt, on grass, on ice and etcetera, it is not always, or even usually, going to leave an impact mark and the damage may be very subtle. It may also not be bent at all. It might be crud built up in the joints (rare, but I've seen it that bad twice). It could also be a defect in manufacture, although that last is extremely unlikely, given Voigtlander's build quality. One other thing is that the older a folding camera is (or any other kind of camera), the more likely it is to have been worked on by someone who has not got a clue what he is doing, and shouldn't be trying to do it. That has screwed up any number of old cameras.
dave61
Established
I second that-"LET'S NOT GET RIDICULOUS HERE"! Such passion! It's usually reserved for politics! Good thing RFF doesn't have face-to-face meetings! There'd be bloodshed. Geez, folks, take it easy, they're just CAMERAS...
Seriously, we're on the same side here?
All old folders are 'unique' and 'quirky'. Some may prefer Germans, others British, Japanese, Russians, whatever. Like FallisPhot sez, every brand had strengths and weaknesses. They're all SEXY, in different ways. It really isn't about 3 quarter-century-old technology. It's the treatment individual cameras suffered.
That said, personally, I like Houghton-Butcher/Ensign-Ross cameras (but then, I also like thunder storms). Elegant yet rugged, I think they hold up well, (like English shoes) and have the best bellows. No one made leather bellows as thick, yet supple, as the Brits.
Why use old cameras when modern equipment (or digi) is easier? It's like driving a classic car: We know modern vehicles require less effort, but we don't care. Is it passion or mental illness...YOU DECIDE!!
The best camera is the one which allows YOU to get the shot you want, freeze the fleeting truth you witness or envision.
Seriously, we're on the same side here?
All old folders are 'unique' and 'quirky'. Some may prefer Germans, others British, Japanese, Russians, whatever. Like FallisPhot sez, every brand had strengths and weaknesses. They're all SEXY, in different ways. It really isn't about 3 quarter-century-old technology. It's the treatment individual cameras suffered.
That said, personally, I like Houghton-Butcher/Ensign-Ross cameras (but then, I also like thunder storms). Elegant yet rugged, I think they hold up well, (like English shoes) and have the best bellows. No one made leather bellows as thick, yet supple, as the Brits.
Why use old cameras when modern equipment (or digi) is easier? It's like driving a classic car: We know modern vehicles require less effort, but we don't care. Is it passion or mental illness...YOU DECIDE!!
The best camera is the one which allows YOU to get the shot you want, freeze the fleeting truth you witness or envision.
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PhilSeattle
Newbie
I have a post-war (ca 1947) Zeiss Ikon Nettar 515/2 6X9 folder. Cost me $50. It doesn't have the 105mm Tessar lens but the Novar Anastigmat is plenty sharp.
