Jeff Fillmore
Member
I am new to the forum and kind of new to rangefinders- or at least rusty since I have been away from them for the last 30 years or so- I did learn to take pictures on an old Argus C4 when I was a kid. But lately I have been thinking a lot about getting back into both film and rangefinders.
I have kind of narrowed it down but looking at the array of kits at B&H and elsewhere for the Zeiss Ikon and am getting a bit confused. I am hoping to get pointed a bit in the right direction. Right now I am shooting with a Nikon D700 and my go-to lens is the 28mm f1.4. My shooting style consists of mostly low light or available light- wide angle- with a lot of selective focus or out of focus elements in the frame. But that setup feels like a tank- I want something light and subtle and with some character. I would like something in the rangefinder genre that would kind of match up with this. Not sure if I should be looking for a Zeiss kit or maybe just a Zeiss body and a different lens like the Voigtlander 35mm f/1.4? (Will that even work on the Zeiss Ikon? I have a lot to learn.)
I have a budget of about $2500 including a few bucks for a film scanner. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Here are some examples of what I shoot with the D700 kit I mentioned.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/capturelifeinaction/sets/72157617297154844/detail/
I have kind of narrowed it down but looking at the array of kits at B&H and elsewhere for the Zeiss Ikon and am getting a bit confused. I am hoping to get pointed a bit in the right direction. Right now I am shooting with a Nikon D700 and my go-to lens is the 28mm f1.4. My shooting style consists of mostly low light or available light- wide angle- with a lot of selective focus or out of focus elements in the frame. But that setup feels like a tank- I want something light and subtle and with some character. I would like something in the rangefinder genre that would kind of match up with this. Not sure if I should be looking for a Zeiss kit or maybe just a Zeiss body and a different lens like the Voigtlander 35mm f/1.4? (Will that even work on the Zeiss Ikon? I have a lot to learn.)
I have a budget of about $2500 including a few bucks for a film scanner. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Here are some examples of what I shoot with the D700 kit I mentioned.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/capturelifeinaction/sets/72157617297154844/detail/
kshapero
South Florida Man
I would check out Tony Rose at www.popflash.com for some awesome kit deals. No slight against BH but you will get really knowledgeable service from Tony and his gang. Sounds to me like you should lean towards the ZI with the ZM 35/2.
Paddy C
Unused film collector
You could buy the ZI with the 28mm biogon as it will match what you are used to with your D700. You won't have the same speed (the ZM is a 2.8) but I doubt that will matter much.
I bought mine with the 2/35 even though I always thought I didn't really like that focal length. I'm a complete convert now. Love it and would recommend it as the first lens.
I also second the Pop Flash recommendation. Great to deal with, great prices.
I bought mine with the 2/35 even though I always thought I didn't really like that focal length. I'm a complete convert now. Love it and would recommend it as the first lens.
I also second the Pop Flash recommendation. Great to deal with, great prices.
willie_901
Veteran
As pointed out above, any 28, 35, 50 or 75 mm (80mm lenses are also practical choices) M-mount lens will work with the ZI. LTM (Leica thread mount) lenses will also work with an inexpensive adapter. So there are hundreds of new and used lenses out there that work with the ZI.
The Zeiss, CV or older Leica 28mm lenses are great choices. Newer Leica lenses are also excellent and they are rather expensive.
A ZI body, a ZI 28/2.8 lens and a good film scanner should be well within your budget.
http://www.popflash.com/index.php?p=product&id=3705&parent=32
You should investigate third party scanner software as well.
Welcome to RFF. All of us were RF beginners once, so read up and post again if you have questions.
The Zeiss, CV or older Leica 28mm lenses are great choices. Newer Leica lenses are also excellent and they are rather expensive.
A ZI body, a ZI 28/2.8 lens and a good film scanner should be well within your budget.
http://www.popflash.com/index.php?p=product&id=3705&parent=32
You should investigate third party scanner software as well.
Welcome to RFF. All of us were RF beginners once, so read up and post again if you have questions.
kshapero
South Florida Man
check out Vuescan Scanning software
peripatetic
Well-known
If you really want wide and fast there are some very expensive Leica lenses available.
Cosina-Voigtlander do a 28mm f2.
But much of the joy of a rangefinder for me comes from two things:
1. The reduced size and weight, which is somewhat ruined by using (relatively) big fast lenses.
2. The joy of being able to see more in the frame than what is actually covered when you shoot. For this reason I love using a 50mm with a ZI, though I am gradually coming round to the idea of getting a 35. Spend half an hour looking through shots taken with the 35 Biogon and you will feel the pull too.
Cosina-Voigtlander do a 28mm f2.
But much of the joy of a rangefinder for me comes from two things:
1. The reduced size and weight, which is somewhat ruined by using (relatively) big fast lenses.
2. The joy of being able to see more in the frame than what is actually covered when you shoot. For this reason I love using a 50mm with a ZI, though I am gradually coming round to the idea of getting a 35. Spend half an hour looking through shots taken with the 35 Biogon and you will feel the pull too.
kywong
Established
I would say 35/2 over the 28/2.8 primarily because you do low light. And buy a soft release whilst you're there at Popflash, they really do help, especially if held properly.
And yes, the Voigtlander 35/1.4 will fit, but the out of focus area is a bit harsh and distracting. That aside though, there is nothing like it for the price, size and speed. The Voigtlander 28/2 is good too if you want to stick to 28.
And yes, the Voigtlander 35/1.4 will fit, but the out of focus area is a bit harsh and distracting. That aside though, there is nothing like it for the price, size and speed. The Voigtlander 28/2 is good too if you want to stick to 28.
fleetwoodjazz
Established
I was looking for a fast 28mm some time ago and concluded that only VC is a reasonable choice price-wise.
The problem maybe that you have already got used to the ISO capacity of the D700. If so then you will not find anything that can match your DSLR set-up in terms of speed. Sorry, flickr is blocked in my country so I could not view your site for better understanding what you need.
I can see that the ZI is a sure choice, maybe you could try VC 28mm f2 and VC 35mm 1.4. 35mm lens is about the best on ZI body. Unfortunately if you want a Zeiss body and lens combo, you will need more $ for the scanner.
fixbones
.......sometimes i thinks
Hi Jeff,
I used to shoot a D700 too. Sold it and wet all film =D
Anyways, bought a ZI ZM with C sonnar 50mm from PopFlash. Great people to deal with!!!
I used to shoot a D700 too. Sold it and wet all film =D
Anyways, bought a ZI ZM with C sonnar 50mm from PopFlash. Great people to deal with!!!
Jeff Fillmore
Member
Thanks for the great feedback all-
Peripatetic- Reduced size and weight is one of my goals here. It was a long holiday weekend over here last weekend and taking family pictures with the D700 I felt like a paparazzi. A little rangefinder in a nice leather half case was heavy on my mind. It is true I do not want to take from that. And your 2nd point is a good one I had not even considered.
Kywong- Is the 35/1.4 'harsh and distracting' only wide open and similar to the others stopped down to f2? Or always harsh? I have a couple slr lenses with 'personality' that deliver some strange results sometimes too.
Fleetwoodjazz- I don't expect it to match the ISO- different tools and different strengths. Looking for something fun, subtle, unique, special, etc., that I can be creative with.
Fixbones- I am keeping the D700 for now, but I did just buy a Nikon FE. I would eventually like to have both film and digital in slr and rangefinder but that may take a while. Another consideration for the lens is will it be what I want on a cropped R-D1.
Sounds like things I need to look harder at are the 28/2, 35/2, & 35/1.4
Peripatetic- Reduced size and weight is one of my goals here. It was a long holiday weekend over here last weekend and taking family pictures with the D700 I felt like a paparazzi. A little rangefinder in a nice leather half case was heavy on my mind. It is true I do not want to take from that. And your 2nd point is a good one I had not even considered.
Kywong- Is the 35/1.4 'harsh and distracting' only wide open and similar to the others stopped down to f2? Or always harsh? I have a couple slr lenses with 'personality' that deliver some strange results sometimes too.
Fleetwoodjazz- I don't expect it to match the ISO- different tools and different strengths. Looking for something fun, subtle, unique, special, etc., that I can be creative with.
Fixbones- I am keeping the D700 for now, but I did just buy a Nikon FE. I would eventually like to have both film and digital in slr and rangefinder but that may take a while. Another consideration for the lens is will it be what I want on a cropped R-D1.
Sounds like things I need to look harder at are the 28/2, 35/2, & 35/1.4
oldoc
oldoc
Ikon Kit
Ikon Kit
You sound as if you have determined that the Ikon is your camera of choice. I think you will, initially miss the auto focus, and so you have, I am sure, considered that. What you are describing here (fun, light, etc...) also can be describing the Konica RF series. Or Leica M6 as a start. Either can, if you shop, be very competitive with the Ikon, and they also have their own advantages, depending on who you speak with.
If the AF issue for you is real, you might consider the Contax G2. Sure, Kyocera is no longer producing them, but they use Zeiss G mount optics, and are autofocus. I am looking at one now, to add to my Leica bag for shots involving more motion, etc.
I realize this is the wrong forum to be advising a change from ZI, but I think you are remiss if you don't consider these options.
Ikon Kit
You sound as if you have determined that the Ikon is your camera of choice. I think you will, initially miss the auto focus, and so you have, I am sure, considered that. What you are describing here (fun, light, etc...) also can be describing the Konica RF series. Or Leica M6 as a start. Either can, if you shop, be very competitive with the Ikon, and they also have their own advantages, depending on who you speak with.
If the AF issue for you is real, you might consider the Contax G2. Sure, Kyocera is no longer producing them, but they use Zeiss G mount optics, and are autofocus. I am looking at one now, to add to my Leica bag for shots involving more motion, etc.
I realize this is the wrong forum to be advising a change from ZI, but I think you are remiss if you don't consider these options.
peripatetic
Well-known
Hang on to the D700. I just got myself a 5D2 and it's pretty groovy. There are times when the DSLRs are fantastic.
But even though I have my new digital toy I find myself picking up the ZI and snapping a roll. Can't help it, it's a joy to use.
The really curious thing is that although I'm not one of those who holds that film has any advantage over digital (my prints from the 5D2 are in a whole different class to 35mm) it really doesn't matter because:
1. It's more fun to shoot with the ZI.
2. I generally take better pictures with the rangefinder (aesthetically), even though they are technically not as good. And I'll sacrifice a lot of technical quality for a little bit extra on the artistic side.
But even though I have my new digital toy I find myself picking up the ZI and snapping a roll. Can't help it, it's a joy to use.
The really curious thing is that although I'm not one of those who holds that film has any advantage over digital (my prints from the 5D2 are in a whole different class to 35mm) it really doesn't matter because:
1. It's more fun to shoot with the ZI.
2. I generally take better pictures with the rangefinder (aesthetically), even though they are technically not as good. And I'll sacrifice a lot of technical quality for a little bit extra on the artistic side.
miissaka
Newbie
Hi Jeff,
I happen to have both the D700 and the ZI with 35mm Biogon. Unfortunately I can not help you with the bundles since I bought my ZI used just a couple of months ago. It is my first RF so I am quite new to it. I use MF lenses on the D700 95% of the time so I have not missed AF one bit although focusing with an RF requires some practice. The depth of field of the Biogon seems to be a lot less than what I'm used to with 35mm focal length SLR lenses.
I can recommend the ZI. It is a wonderfully small and simple camera compared to the D700. Don't get me wrong, I love my D700 as well. I use D700 for experimenting and "ordinary" stuff and film for more special occasions. On the film-SLR side my recent favorite has been the small Nikon EM (which I can heartily recommend, btw).
I'm building a film kit for traveling light: Nikon EM + a macro and/or a tele and ZI for wide angle(s).
Mikko
I happen to have both the D700 and the ZI with 35mm Biogon. Unfortunately I can not help you with the bundles since I bought my ZI used just a couple of months ago. It is my first RF so I am quite new to it. I use MF lenses on the D700 95% of the time so I have not missed AF one bit although focusing with an RF requires some practice. The depth of field of the Biogon seems to be a lot less than what I'm used to with 35mm focal length SLR lenses.
I can recommend the ZI. It is a wonderfully small and simple camera compared to the D700. Don't get me wrong, I love my D700 as well. I use D700 for experimenting and "ordinary" stuff and film for more special occasions. On the film-SLR side my recent favorite has been the small Nikon EM (which I can heartily recommend, btw).
I'm building a film kit for traveling light: Nikon EM + a macro and/or a tele and ZI for wide angle(s).
Mikko
mfogiel
Veteran
Your kit should be the ZI with the CV 35/1.2 Nokton, but I am worried, as you shoot colour. In my opinion colour belongs to the digital world, so think this over again. However, in case you want to try, this is what you will get:
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