jamato8
Corroding tank M9 35 ASPH
The focus was off on all or anyone of the lenses being used? I have four lenses and one was right on but adjusting for the other (allen wrench and easy to do) would be good for that one lens but then of course, the others were off. It appears well known among the repair people with both the M9 and M8. The sensor or lack of QC in the manufacture of the lenses over the past number of years?
Did I have the problem with my M3 and M2 when I used them? No. So is it the exactness of the sensor or some other problem? It was stated to me that a few Leica repair people are refusing to work on the M9 focus issues due to the difficulty that sometimes even the focus will shift and that infinity won't actually be infinity when the rangefinder shows it to be. So there appears to be two types of possible focus issues. 1. Not all lenses will focus correctly due to the tolerance differences in lenses and 2. the lenses may focus correctly at certain points but but there is a shift and at close or far distance, the focus is again off, which requires a much more extensive rangefinder adjustment than the allen wrench.
Did I have the problem with my M3 and M2 when I used them? No. So is it the exactness of the sensor or some other problem? It was stated to me that a few Leica repair people are refusing to work on the M9 focus issues due to the difficulty that sometimes even the focus will shift and that infinity won't actually be infinity when the rangefinder shows it to be. So there appears to be two types of possible focus issues. 1. Not all lenses will focus correctly due to the tolerance differences in lenses and 2. the lenses may focus correctly at certain points but but there is a shift and at close or far distance, the focus is again off, which requires a much more extensive rangefinder adjustment than the allen wrench.
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swoop
Well-known
The focus was spot on with my first M9. With my second M9, I'm not sure, but I think a lens or two may be off. I've not yet actually test them all.
I think most focus issues can be resolved by fine-tuning the lens. But some lenses do focus differently wide open vs stopped down. I've had DAG check and adjust focus on the lenses I use with my M8s, and most needed it. I did not send my M8 bodies to DAG; he just set the lenses exactly to spec, and they now focus fine on both cameras.
The digital sensor is more critical about focus than film.
The digital sensor is more critical about focus than film.
mathomas
Well-known
From what I read in LFI, digital has a less tolerance for mis-focusing (either by the user or by mechanical/optical issues) due to the fact that the sensor is a "pure" plane. If you're focused in front of, or behind the plane of the sensor, you won't have good focus. In contrast, film is somewhat 3-dimensional, so there is more opportunity to have focus within the depth of the of the emulsion.
Seems to me this effect has to be very minimal, but I read it in LFI, so it has to be true, right?
Seems to me this effect has to be very minimal, but I read it in LFI, so it has to be true, right?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
The effect is large. Lenses tuned for film have a far larger tolerance span. Nowadays leica adjusts lenses to M8/M9 tolerances. It makes no real sense to send a body and lenses in together. The lenses are adjusted on a reference body, not on your own.
jamato8
Corroding tank M9 35 ASPH
True unless the rangefinder of the M9 is off also, which appears to be a problem on some. So, to me it does make sense to send the body in but a pain. Even Leica told me by phone it was best to send the body with the lenses as the body needed to be checked as well.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
That is true if you have both parts of the system off. I prefer to send the lens first and the body later if needed ( it is adjusted without lens by Leica)
charles.k
charles.k
Excellent idea to check the calibration of the M9. I just had mine sent to Camera Clinic in Melbourne, and it took 5 days to complete the M9 and 6 lenses. The synopsis was the M9 was front focusing, and 3 out of the 6 lenses were back focusing. In future I just need to send any new lenses only, as the M9 will now correlate to master calibration. Total cost was USD $600. Money well spent. Now I am not second guessing whether its technique, the lens or camera. We are dealing with mechanical RF components, and yes they do need to be checked out, regardless of the QC issues at Leica, Zeiss or Voigtlander.
fotomeow
name under my name
dont mean to be a an old pill, but seems odd that you have to pay extra to calibrate focus on the M9 with the same brand (Leica ) lenses; Apparently buying a $7K camera doesnt even promise proper focus .... but at least you have piece of mind that all components work solidly together, and this makes it a reasonable repair (upgrade???? he he)
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jamato8
Corroding tank M9 35 ASPH
No old pill, I totally agree. With any camera but a 7K one that has these issues, and this has been told to me by 2 well known Leica repair persons, it is inexcusable but it is a bitter pill some, myself included, are swallowing.
jplomley
Established
I believe their is an inherent issue with some of the aspherical lenses. My 28 Cron Asph and 35 Cron Asph both focus spot-on at f/2 and f/2.8. At f/4 and f/5.6, the plane of focus shifts behind the intended plane of focus. When I had the 28mm adjusted, in order for f/4 and f/5.6 to work, I had to sacrifice f/2 performance (the lens front-focuses wide open). And yes, the M9 has been tweaked by Leica NJ (right out of the box, the RF calibration was off). A friends 35 Cron Asph and 50 Lux exhibit the same behaviour on both his adjusted M9 and mine. The Lux is fine at f/1.4 and f/2, and at f/2.8-f/5.6 the plane of focus shifts behind the intended plane. So it seems to me that these lenses cannot be adjusted for optimal performance at every aperture when it comes to consistently nailing the focus plane. Personally, I'm at the point where I'm seriously considering selling the entire kit and moving to an evil SLR!
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victoriapio
Well-known
When my M9 arrived I sent it to DAG with several lenses. I still had an M8 too, and I found the lenses focused perfectly on both bodies once he adjusted them.
ableforensics
Howard Eisemann
I do not have an M9. I am still more than satisfied with the full frame M7. Should going Leica digital full frame entail paying $7,000 for a new M9 that is not built or delivered in concert with the manufacturer's own published specifications is unconscionable.
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LightBender
Member
Why do you care
Why do you care
Why would you ask a question if you clearly state that you have not had this problem?
To address the second part of your post; which Leica repair people will not work on the M9 and who are all of these people you quote that state problems with QC and repair problems with the focus and with Leica lenses over the last several years? Can you provide some data to support this?
Lastly, to answer the last portion of your post; yes, lenses have tolerances if you look for them and yes, certain lenses have focus shift and sometimes the rangefinder can get out of alignment from near to intermediate to far and it will need adjustment. I would advise anyone except the best technician to keep their wrench out of it.
Cheers.
Why do you care
Why would you ask a question if you clearly state that you have not had this problem?
To address the second part of your post; which Leica repair people will not work on the M9 and who are all of these people you quote that state problems with QC and repair problems with the focus and with Leica lenses over the last several years? Can you provide some data to support this?
Lastly, to answer the last portion of your post; yes, lenses have tolerances if you look for them and yes, certain lenses have focus shift and sometimes the rangefinder can get out of alignment from near to intermediate to far and it will need adjustment. I would advise anyone except the best technician to keep their wrench out of it.
Cheers.
jamato8
Corroding tank M9 35 ASPH
I reread my post. I did not post in the sentence what I meant. I do have the problem and have sent off my M9 and lenses for adjustment. The information on repair people not wanting to work on the M9 was from a well known repair person. That is as far as I will go with that.
Having shot everything from 8X10 down I know there are tolerances and shifts and so on but the M9 issues that start right out of the box are unjustified out of a 7000 camera.
Having shot everything from 8X10 down I know there are tolerances and shifts and so on but the M9 issues that start right out of the box are unjustified out of a 7000 camera.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
For critical focusing Leica would do well to include live view on subsequent versions of their digital M. It would certainly make it easy to find out if your lenses are matching what the rangefinder is telling you!
LightBender
Member
John, I understand your original post now that I understand you had this problem and you were seeking information. Sorry, for being so critical of your post. I have yet to have this problem with my M8 or M9. I have even tried to be critical and look for it with my lenses on both cameras and best I can tell it is all fine. I am afraid I may be guilty of being critical of those I perceive that are looking for problems.
jamato8
Corroding tank M9 35 ASPH
Understanding each other is sometimes the hardest thing about being human.
I am glad you have no problems. That is great, it truly is. I hope mine comes back and I won't have any concerns about focus etc. Sure there may be shift from wide open, I can handle that as I normally like the wider f stops on Leica anyway and if not I go to 8 or 11, which normally covers everything then.
This humidity in Micronesia with 400 inches of rain a year is tough on equipment. I am working on two Leica scopes right now that they left locked in a labe for 2.5 years. Thousands of dollars filled with fungus.
ederek
Well-known
* I have a focusing problem with my M9.
* At about 30 feet out, it back-focuses by about 2-3 feet.
* Close focusing seems ok.
* Happens with both 50 and 75 lux (only lenses used recently with limited DOF focused at a distance).
* Best I can tell by looking at recent photos, is that it started about 1 1/2 weeks ago.
* Do not recall any bumps to the camera.
* The camera was bough new four months ago.
* Need to investigate more, only just noticed the problem recently (hence following this thread). Of course, the timing is terrible with 2 trips coming.
To answer your questions.
1) no, haven't sent it in as only confirmed issue for sure last weekend.
2) I believe my situation is unrelated to sensor QC issues, as it was ok for 3 1/2 months, then went out of alignment, pointing to some other problem.
3) Tolerance between lenses wouldn't seem to be the problem, as previously I could focus at distance accurately with all lenses.
To your final point, you suggest it requires more adjustment than the allen wrench (any references to the adjustment?).
I need to check focus at infinity, it would great if it were only an allen wrench adjustment (any online references for the rangefinder adjustment??).
* At about 30 feet out, it back-focuses by about 2-3 feet.
* Close focusing seems ok.
* Happens with both 50 and 75 lux (only lenses used recently with limited DOF focused at a distance).
* Best I can tell by looking at recent photos, is that it started about 1 1/2 weeks ago.
* Do not recall any bumps to the camera.
* The camera was bough new four months ago.
* Need to investigate more, only just noticed the problem recently (hence following this thread). Of course, the timing is terrible with 2 trips coming.
To answer your questions.
1) no, haven't sent it in as only confirmed issue for sure last weekend.
2) I believe my situation is unrelated to sensor QC issues, as it was ok for 3 1/2 months, then went out of alignment, pointing to some other problem.
3) Tolerance between lenses wouldn't seem to be the problem, as previously I could focus at distance accurately with all lenses.
To your final point, you suggest it requires more adjustment than the allen wrench (any references to the adjustment?).
I need to check focus at infinity, it would great if it were only an allen wrench adjustment (any online references for the rangefinder adjustment??).
jplomley
Established
This is not the first time I have read about calibration drift with the M9. Frankly, this has me very very concerned, as like yourself, I have three major trips coming up from Sept-Dec.