zauhar
Veteran
Ok let's try this. I'll put myself out there. I prefer to post one of my own for a couple of reason. First and foremost I don't feel comfortable posting someone else's work for this purpose and two I know why I took it. Not that I think this is anything spectacular but i do think it works on several levels. I will first talk some about it and include some of the critique that was given. I showed this in out last session.
What caught my eye is when she was starting to walk by I noticed all the stripes. (repeating shapes) and the the guys watching her. I waited until she got to an interesting point in the frame and I took the image.
So what makes this work for me is she is young and from the side she is hold the jacket you don't know if she is yet a woman. The guys looking and the reflection clearly shows that she is. Then you see the advertising poster that in the window that is what advertisers show as the perfect woman. So it I think it works on a visual level with all the repeating shapes (the stripes which are everywhere) and it starts to say a little bit about who we are as a society. Now whether it has any real merit I will leave to the others.
So let's hear your views. Like, hate whatever. HAVE AT IT...
That's one wonderful image - I agree with Jesse, that is excellent, multiple layers and visually compelling elements.
A practical question - how close were you to the young lady? Unless that was a long lens, you were right on top of her. She did not notice you taking the photo? Most people, especially girls, start to twitch when a camera is anywhere in the vicinity.
Randy
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Hi Randy and thanks. I shoot street and have for a couple year exclusively with a Leica M M and a 35mm lens so she was close. I'm a big guy but I have focus pre set (DoF scales) and I'm shooting with a small camera. I was walking in the opposite direction as she was and started to see it unfold. Didn't frame until the very last moment. I don't think she ever noticed. I was so lucky that I kept her reflection when I really quickly framed the shot. As I said earlier I wish that I had little more but I'll take what I have. Without the reflection, for me, there is no photograph.
Hsg
who dares wins
Here is a photo by me that I have posted here before and you can critique, but there is nothing to critique, because neither the picture nor I are saying that there is anything 'going on' in the photo that is special, its just a simple photo... Its just that I personally find it 'visually' interesting, that's all.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I'm really interested in what mfogiel has to say. I am waiting to comment till I hear his thoughts.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
HSG I like the mood and the guy in the light and everyone else is in dark. Wish the highlights on the bag weren't completely blown but are probably in the file and would show nicely in a print. Also not sure about him being dead center. Seem to hold my attention and I don't move around the frame. I like the dark shape of the girl on the far left framing the shot on that side. The car on the right seems to point back in the frame though you might want to bring the brightness on it down some. Everyones moving in the same direction and maybe just one person going against the grain (the other direction) might take it to another level. Could also mean everyone is conforming which might be aporpriate for the location.
What do you find visually interesting in the shot? What is working for you and what, if anything, isn't?
What do you find visually interesting in the shot? What is working for you and what, if anything, isn't?
JChrome
Street Worker
I love how the critiques of this photo have ranged so far. And while I do think that is a testament to the nature of subjectivity, I get tired of people harping on the subject (maybe because I used to do it all the time).
In someways, if you continue to say "it's all subjective!" then you're ignoring the very interesting and deep tradition of visual composition. Not to say that you all do this, just something to watch out for.
Regarding Airfrog's image, when it first struck my eye, I really didn't think much of it. What hurts it the most for me is the advertisement of the woman's face stacked on top of the main subject's head.
I think the most important thing you've got going in this photo is the relationship between the three subjects - The girl, her reflection to the left and the guy's reflection to the right. I love the power of three's (something I think we all share - ie - not "subjective"
) and if you could give me a shot without that advertisement and those three subjects in there, then I would like it a lot more.The other elements airfrog mentions - the relationship of the stripes, the relationship of the beauty of the advertisement, the jacket being held... I couldn't get past some of those earlier items to look/think that far into it.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Thanks JChrome,
To me and the reason I think it so important (the advertising) is the little girl in her, bow in her hair and the part of her more mature shape being hidden by the jacket, the ad represents the preconceived idea of beauty to young girls and then the reality, her reality, is the reflection. And then the big thing getting lost is how it fits with other images form this particular body of work.
To me and the reason I think it so important (the advertising) is the little girl in her, bow in her hair and the part of her more mature shape being hidden by the jacket, the ad represents the preconceived idea of beauty to young girls and then the reality, her reality, is the reflection. And then the big thing getting lost is how it fits with other images form this particular body of work.
Hsg
who dares wins
The 'visual' appeal of that photo is useless if it cannot be repeated, so here is the same image with two more simple photos - but, they look visually similar. IMO one has to have something going in the photos that is beyond words - something purely visual.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Agree for me and many it starts with those elements that Bresson talks about and then really good work goes beyond that. Work that one gets immediate gratification form usually only working on one level. You look you see you get andf nothing to go back to look at agin. No need to. But good work is work that has layers and usually works on multiple levels and keeps you coming back because it unfolds slowly and the more you look the more you see. Work like that has staying power.
So tell me what those elements are that are in the image I asked about and those elements you speak about and what is missing if anything. And ultimately it is about bodies of work. A good photographer is not made by making one good image just as a baseball player with one good at bat makes the hall of fame. It's about consistent bodies of work
So tell me what those elements are that are in the image I asked about and those elements you speak about and what is missing if anything. And ultimately it is about bodies of work. A good photographer is not made by making one good image just as a baseball player with one good at bat makes the hall of fame. It's about consistent bodies of work
robbeiflex
Well-known
That looks suspiciously like Toronto signage (2nd shot). For me the 2nd one is by far stronger than the others visually, regardless of the reminder of my home town which I left long ago. Better light, better exposure and the composition is much stronger as it draws and keeps the eye in the centre of the photo. Just my 2 cents worth.
Hsg
who dares wins
I have no authority figure that I follow, I used to but not any more. In fact as I posted in one thread, for me the shoot is the fun part and photos, I don't really care much about them.
So to answer my own question, I don't mind anyone to offer critique of my photographs because in my own view there is nothing to critique in them. They're simple photos that say nothing and don't make any assumptions on the viewer.
So to answer my own question, I don't mind anyone to offer critique of my photographs because in my own view there is nothing to critique in them. They're simple photos that say nothing and don't make any assumptions on the viewer.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
HSG,
Here ares ome very basic things and I certainly don't agree with all of it but it is a good resource and might hold some answers? Some of it is right on the money.
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/...esson-can-teach-you-about-street-photography/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/10/03/street-photography-composition-lesson-1-triangles/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/10/16/street-photography-composition-lesson-4-leading-lines/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/...graphy-composition-lesson-2-figure-to-ground/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/10/10/street-photography-composition-lesson-3-diagonals/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/...grand-can-teach-you-about-street-photography/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/...owitz-has-taught-me-about-street-photography/
Just some stuff that might help?
Here ares ome very basic things and I certainly don't agree with all of it but it is a good resource and might hold some answers? Some of it is right on the money.
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/...esson-can-teach-you-about-street-photography/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/10/03/street-photography-composition-lesson-1-triangles/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/10/16/street-photography-composition-lesson-4-leading-lines/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/...graphy-composition-lesson-2-figure-to-ground/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2013/10/10/street-photography-composition-lesson-3-diagonals/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/...grand-can-teach-you-about-street-photography/
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/...owitz-has-taught-me-about-street-photography/
Just some stuff that might help?
airfrogusmc
Veteran
But you should have some opinion of your own work? Why does it appeal to you. There has to be a reason. What are those elements that strike you or moved you to take the photograph?
sjones
Established
I’m a bit of an aberration in that I don’t seek critique despite its instructive value. For one thing, this is a hobby, something from which I hope to derive fun and enjoyment. I’m competitive enough with myself, and I still find ways to learn from the “masters,” even if not in a directly personal way. If I start to add other voices, I’ll become consumed by even the most thoughtful criticism, militating against the fun.
Do I need a ‘thicker skin?’ Maybe. Am I going to get one. Nope.
But it’s more complex than just avoiding any bruised egos. How and what I choose to photograph is my decision, and irrespective of any aforementioned insecurities, I’m confident in my aesthetic discretion, at least within a certain degree of fluctuation.
That is, for example, I’ll question why I posted certain photos just weeks or even days after uploading them to my site. Evolving always, but appreciating the present, that’s all I can really do.
To be sure, and I’m only speaking for myself, compliments are always welcome, but ultimately, the drive and incentive must come from within.
Now, all of this said, while some transcendent coterie determining what qualifies as quality or art does not exists, the issue is not so relative, at least for me, that an invitation for critique would be all inclusive. Opinion it might all be, but informed and inline with certain aesthetic expectations and direction would be important.
Do I need a ‘thicker skin?’ Maybe. Am I going to get one. Nope.
But it’s more complex than just avoiding any bruised egos. How and what I choose to photograph is my decision, and irrespective of any aforementioned insecurities, I’m confident in my aesthetic discretion, at least within a certain degree of fluctuation.
That is, for example, I’ll question why I posted certain photos just weeks or even days after uploading them to my site. Evolving always, but appreciating the present, that’s all I can really do.
To be sure, and I’m only speaking for myself, compliments are always welcome, but ultimately, the drive and incentive must come from within.
Now, all of this said, while some transcendent coterie determining what qualifies as quality or art does not exists, the issue is not so relative, at least for me, that an invitation for critique would be all inclusive. Opinion it might all be, but informed and inline with certain aesthetic expectations and direction would be important.
JChrome
Street Worker
Fair enough. But before I dive deep enough to come to those conclusions, the first thing it needs to do (for me) is be visually pleasing. You may want the advertisement to be above her head because it creates this notion of the ideal woman in her mind. But visually, it doesn't work for me.
If I understand you right, I suppose the question becomes "Should you compromise the visual appeal to enhance some sort of philosophical/psychological meaning?"
I know when I shoot street, I only aim for visually pleasing compositions that come out of the chaos. Any sort of deeper meaning is just icing on the cake. I don't shoot street to convey to people something philosophical.
That said, I do have a project which is specific and is in the street and is using strangers as subjects. I am trying to convey something philosophical in this work, but I don't consider it "street photography". I am striving towards something else, completely different than my street work.
The other issue at play here is our ego and our ability to "covet" our own work. The below image is my favorite from a recent trip to India. I've posted it elsewhere on this forum. No one ever gave it any roaring applause on here (someone said my series was nice). But I keep coming back to it and it still shines to me. My own critique:
It could be a bit sharper (a bit of hand shake)
The spacing could be better.
Not sure if I like the mirror to the left so close to the edge of the frame.
What do you guys think?
airfrogusmc
Veteran
And that is cool. I think it creates the tip of a triangle forming a classic triangular composition if just speaking about visuals. But thats me.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I find it interesting. I do like the two mirror reflections though I find the one on the left to be slightly distracting. There is a nice upside down triangle comp. I think the guy moving in the from left is a strong element. give a real sense of place. Thats my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth and I don't find a sharpness issue. Might fit nicely into a larger body of work.
mfogiel
Veteran
@airfrogusmc
Re: your shot
I find your photograph interesting, although on its own not very powerful. My personal preference would be to cut away a piece of the stripes on the right, to lighten their impact and draw the attention to the center-left of the image, where the more important things are happening. I disagree with the comments, that the photo is weak, and the reflections not strong enough, etc. There is an interesting aesthetics, and that on its own can be sufficient for someone to write a cheque for over 4 million USD, like in case of Rhine II, which as a stand alone photograph is worth as much as the printing paper it has been made on. On a more personal note - I dislike the digital look of your photos, but this is my personal thing. I like Jazz and usually am bored by pop music as well.
My shot is just a street photo with no particular acrobatic-geometric effects or historic importance. It is interesting for me, because I am concerned with the individual, her/his problems and thought processes, and a handsome candid moment of solitary reflection is good enough for me to press the shutter. This was shot in Cannes - was this girl French or maybe Russian? Was she texting with her Monaco boyfriend, or was she upset, because her brother was on the Ukrainian front? Only she knows, like only YOU know what is going on in your head now. Not everybody needs to be Cartier-Bresson or Constantine Manos, who BTW for me is one of the best colour photographers I know about.
Re: your shot
I find your photograph interesting, although on its own not very powerful. My personal preference would be to cut away a piece of the stripes on the right, to lighten their impact and draw the attention to the center-left of the image, where the more important things are happening. I disagree with the comments, that the photo is weak, and the reflections not strong enough, etc. There is an interesting aesthetics, and that on its own can be sufficient for someone to write a cheque for over 4 million USD, like in case of Rhine II, which as a stand alone photograph is worth as much as the printing paper it has been made on. On a more personal note - I dislike the digital look of your photos, but this is my personal thing. I like Jazz and usually am bored by pop music as well.
My shot is just a street photo with no particular acrobatic-geometric effects or historic importance. It is interesting for me, because I am concerned with the individual, her/his problems and thought processes, and a handsome candid moment of solitary reflection is good enough for me to press the shutter. This was shot in Cannes - was this girl French or maybe Russian? Was she texting with her Monaco boyfriend, or was she upset, because her brother was on the Ukrainian front? Only she knows, like only YOU know what is going on in your head now. Not everybody needs to be Cartier-Bresson or Constantine Manos, who BTW for me is one of the best colour photographers I know about.
fireblade
Vincenzo.
interesting scene.
would have been good to have the old ladys face in focus, and if you dropped on one knee to take the image so that the barbers legs were in the frame and the whole lounge where the other is sleeping...filling in the top third of the frame....still a nice image.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I do think that crits on the world wide web are sometimes not that helpful Usually they get into pissing matches and personal matters that have little to do with the work. I am not saying that's happening here. It hasn't so far. But live critiques with people that are about the same place on the journey or even ahead of you are for me anyway invaluable.
I was in a large one man exhibit in 2013 35 prints and the folks i crit with regularly were so helpful in helping me edit the work down to the 35 for the show. I had an image selected to be in a juried show last summer in New York at the Soho Gallery only 42 out of 2600 images were selected and they helped me so much in getting the edit down for that and they and the curators at the gallery my show this March is at were so instrumental in getting me to the final images. So getting the right feedback can be so important in helping you grow. Not sure the world wide web is the best setting for that. I might change my mind if this thread keeps moving in the right direction.
I was in a large one man exhibit in 2013 35 prints and the folks i crit with regularly were so helpful in helping me edit the work down to the 35 for the show. I had an image selected to be in a juried show last summer in New York at the Soho Gallery only 42 out of 2600 images were selected and they helped me so much in getting the edit down for that and they and the curators at the gallery my show this March is at were so instrumental in getting me to the final images. So getting the right feedback can be so important in helping you grow. Not sure the world wide web is the best setting for that. I might change my mind if this thread keeps moving in the right direction.