Dralowid
Michael
Following up on Vince's camera, I attach a couple of pictures of the similar conversion that I have.
I'm interested in the idea that these conversions were purely a way of avoiding exprot/import restrictions. It tends to explain the significant cost that must have been incurred in doing them.
Hope you like it
Michael
john neal
fallor ergo sum
Ok, well, my half-race arrived a short while ago 
Pretty much as expected there is good & bad news:
The good is that it is in generally super condition and all the speeds work fine, and the shutter sounds really good - smooth & slick.
The bad is that it is definitely a recover - even I can tell that this is not vulcanite. It looks to me like a grey Aki Asahi cover. You can see where it has been stretched around the body screws, and is bulging away from the body slightly. there is a slight overlap too, at the bottom of the lens mount.
I promised to add some pics, so here are some taken with my old digithing (my wife has her good one in her car today).
{edit} Dralowid, forgot to say, one of those would be on my wish-list of black Barnack bodies - VERY near the top!!
Pretty much as expected there is good & bad news:
The good is that it is in generally super condition and all the speeds work fine, and the shutter sounds really good - smooth & slick.
The bad is that it is definitely a recover - even I can tell that this is not vulcanite. It looks to me like a grey Aki Asahi cover. You can see where it has been stretched around the body screws, and is bulging away from the body slightly. there is a slight overlap too, at the bottom of the lens mount.
I promised to add some pics, so here are some taken with my old digithing (my wife has her good one in her car today).
{edit} Dralowid, forgot to say, one of those would be on my wish-list of black Barnack bodies - VERY near the top!!
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john neal
fallor ergo sum
Three more pics, if you look closely, you can see where the covering has been forced under the top plate between the two screws - it doesn't sit quite right,
I'm resisting the urge to take the body off until I have run a test film (sorry Tom!)
Interestingly, it has a 3/8" tripod bush - I wonder if it is the original base-plate?
I'm resisting the urge to take the body off until I have run a test film (sorry Tom!)
Interestingly, it has a 3/8" tripod bush - I wonder if it is the original base-plate?
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john neal
fallor ergo sum
350D_user
B+W film devotee
The stuff I'm using is actually ADOX APH09...john neal said:
http://www.retrophotographic.com/adoxchem.htm
That bottle should (sez he) last a long time, especially at 1+100.
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Here`s an early Christmas present..........
A 1956 Leitz Summarit f1.5 50mm lens with a Bolex Cine adapter in excellent condition - I`ve decided to KEEP this lens, instead of selling it or trading it......(I predict an increase in value for the Summarit in the next couple of months, in the direction of $500+)
I was also offered a bunch of vintage cine gear with this lens, in the closing of an estate, if anyone`s INTERESTED please drop me a line and let me know if any of this stuff`s worth anything to someone, I`m sure the Bolex, Beaulieu cameras and the Fujinon lenses are`nt cheap
1. D. O. Industries Anamorphic 16F (used, good condition. Lens
has bottom cap)
2. Soligor Television Lens 75mm (small nicks on the outer
surface, no caps)
3. Singer Anamorphic 16D Nr. 48740 (mint condition, both caps
and case)
4. Eastman Kodak Cine Ektar Lens 50mm Nr. R01446 (some
discoloration on outer surface, small cap only)
5. Fujinon-TV Lens Nr. 635264 (mint condition, no covers)
6. Somtar 16mm, 2inch f/16 (good condition, no covers)
7. Wollensak Raptar Telephoto Lens, 1 1/2 inch f/3.2 (small
cover only in case)
8. Elgeet Adapter #805 (still in box )
9. Elgeet Cineflex Viewer #CFX-8 for 8mm camera (good condition,
in box)
10. Santar 3 inch Telephoto Cine for 16mm Movie (good condition,
both caps)
11. Lytar SOM Berthoit L77852 (mint conditon, one cover)
12. Wollensak size 4 filter hood (good conditon)
13. Wollensak 25mm Cine Raptar, Nr. C30508 (good condition, no
caps)
14. Soligor Wide Angle 10mm Lens (some surface nicks, used)
15. Saymon-Brown Hand Held Viewfinder ( in case, used)
16. Tiffen G-1 green filter in clear case
17. Hova VII B-85B color filter (chipped, no case)
18. Hova 49 85B Amber filter in case
19. Tiffen Photar 4xND series #5 fliter in case
20. Tiffen Hi-Trans 856 series 4 filter in case
21. Paillard Bolex 16mm wind camera, # 136662. 3 turret with
viewfinder #97322. In Working Condition, some outer surface
wear.
22. Soligor Wide Angle 10mm lens. Excellent condition.
23 Beaulieu R16 Camera, #666646, 3 turret, with 100 roll spool
film casing. Not sure if it works.
Thanks
Tom
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pesphoto
Veteran
no offense, shouldnt you pay for a rff classified ad like the rest of us?
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
pesphoto said:
It`s NOT my gear, plus this is`nt an ad, I`m just posting this up for the person who doesn`t have a computer, while this is`nt RF gear, maybe no one here even gives a damm about it.........
I`m just seeing if there`s any interest for people here?
There`s many folks who don`t have a clue about this stuff and they do this all the time by posting lists with questions about gear, I`m a Leica specialist, I don`t know anything about 1950`s Cine, Movie and Film stuff, so that`s why your reading this
Tom
PS: Maybe I should just start a NEW thread with this list HELP WANTED on value of vintage movie gear.......
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Vince Lupo
Whatever
Pretty wild stuff here kids -- Santa loves all of us very much!
John, what's the deal with that serial number (392)? Is that for real?! The camera doesn't look too bad actually, and as long as it keeps the love of taking pictures alive, what the heck....
John, what's the deal with that serial number (392)? Is that for real?! The camera doesn't look too bad actually, and as long as it keeps the love of taking pictures alive, what the heck....
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Dralowid said:
I really don`t think that conversions have anything to do with saving/cutting dodging import taxes, while 85% of all conversion cameras originate in Germany or on the European continent and most were made before 1960, so this was done more out of need and necessity and also saving money......... while buying a new camera was very expensive, you could have your old camera converted at a fraction of the cost of a new one, so the plan was attractive for many, lot`s of "wartime" era IIIC`s were converted to IIIFBD in the early 1950`s including the IIIC K grey paint models (which I would`nt mind having one) a IIIIC K grey paint to IIIFBD conversion, not worth what the normal version of the camera`s worth according to collectors values, but I don`t really care, I think conversions are fun and that would make a really killer everyday shooter!
Tom
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Dralowid said:
Michael -- Love that one...hope you use it!
I'll let you guys know about the whole vulcanite fix...right now I'm weighing a couple of options. I've decided against CRR, primarily due to the cost (probably around $ 450.00). Kindermann Canada (which handles Leica in Canada) said they could do something for me, and a friend of Tom's said he could do something. So we'll see...might be a coin toss!
As far as conversions go, I think I'm with Tom on this one -- it might have been just a service for those Leica customers who had older, less feature laden cameras who wanted to update and nothing more. Just my opinion, and I could be wrong....
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john neal
fallor ergo sum
Tom & Vince - you are correct in that Leica offered the conversion service to customers to ease the cost of obtaining a new camera and keep them hooked on Leica.
At the time, UK Purchase Tax on luxury goods could be as high as 60%, while "repairs" which is what this would have been classed as, would probably be free of purchase tax, or charged at a much lower rate, such as 8% - so there was a big incentive for UK enthusiasts to find an economically priced (i.e. well used) older body and send it for conversion. this was still not easy in post-war blighty - a used Leica was likely to cost a lot more than a 2nd hand car (possibly even as much as a small apartment!).
Of course, you guys in the colonies had it soft by comparison - dirt cheap new Leica and Contax stock in the PX, no tax, cheap petrol (sorry, gasoline), nylons - I could go on
At the time, UK Purchase Tax on luxury goods could be as high as 60%, while "repairs" which is what this would have been classed as, would probably be free of purchase tax, or charged at a much lower rate, such as 8% - so there was a big incentive for UK enthusiasts to find an economically priced (i.e. well used) older body and send it for conversion. this was still not easy in post-war blighty - a used Leica was likely to cost a lot more than a 2nd hand car (possibly even as much as a small apartment!).
Of course, you guys in the colonies had it soft by comparison - dirt cheap new Leica and Contax stock in the PX, no tax, cheap petrol (sorry, gasoline), nylons - I could go on
Mudman
Well-known
nylons? Your not talking about womens pantyhose are you? You brits get me with the language differences sometimes.
Cheers Mate (aye, I know that's more aussie)
Cheers Mate (aye, I know that's more aussie)
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
john neal said:Tom & Vince - you are correct in that Leica offered the conversion service to customers to ease the cost of obtaining a new camera and keep them hooked on Leica.
At the time, UK Purchase Tax on luxury goods could be as high as 60%, while "repairs" which is what this would have been classed as, would probably be free of purchase tax, or charged at a much lower rate, such as 8% - so there was a big incentive for UK enthusiasts to find an economically priced (i.e. well used) older body and send it for conversion. this was still not easy in post-war blighty - a used Leica was likely to cost a lot more than a 2nd hand car (possibly even as much as a small apartment!).
Of course, you guys in the colonies had it soft by comparison - dirt cheap new Leica and Contax stock in the PX, no tax, cheap petrol (sorry, gasoline), nylons - I could go on
Yes, I think that the British Forces Stores had Rolleiflex in limited numbers,
(mostly officers bought them) and the Leica was a premium for almost everyone, cept that maybe it was far easier for an American soldier to acquire one - it was quite good for the US Servicemen and women in Germany in the late 1940`s and 1950`s - our rationing system back home was also lifted on the most part in 1945 and 46 (for meat and rubber tires and nylon for stockings).......but, the UK had rationing I believe till 1957 with some things and cameras were very expensive there, that was`nt lifted until the mid to late 1960`s
But back to postwar Germany - (as I`ve been told so many Black Market stories of 1945 to 1949) the prewar Leica`s were good barter material and the grey painted German Army and Airforce versions of military cameras made pre 1945 were also sought after by many at that time, the K shutter and new postwar Half Race shutter cameras being the most expensive (maybe $80) in American money or more in Occupation dollars
Many Leica`s changed hands for cigarettes, nylons *stockings* and booze or even tinned food goods, it was`nt really until the Deutschmark in 1949 that Leica sales to the German economy picked up and then as I mentioned the conversion was very attractive to many who already had cameras, that`s why you see so many "wartime" IIIC to IIIFBD conversions for sale at times on ebay.de or in the UK
Conversions have their place in my heart (I like them collectable or not, they are neat because they are different) and it`s only been till recently that they have been more accepted in the collectors circles, while in the 1980`s and 90`s they were shunned by many and were always the cheapest of the lot......
Now to find a *4 digit* Leica is hard enough, but to have one that`s modified to mid to late 1950`s flash sync. and such is a real find, I`m sure maybe only a hundred or so cameras were ever done that way
Tom
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john neal
fallor ergo sum
Mudman said:
No - definitely NOT pantyhose - those are a vile concoction dreamed up by the devil in the 1960s. I mean real stockings - the kind that go with suspenders and high heels, have a seam down the back and make a woman's legs look knockout.
I'm sure Tom will have some pics to that effect somewhere
john neal
fallor ergo sum
Tom,
I think we are in danger of violently agreeing
A new Leica for $80 would have been a dream for anyone living in post-war Britain. If you could find one in the late 1940s, it would have been nearer 10 times that by the time it got into Wallace Heaton's window in London, with 2nd hand values being very high too.
I have seen two very old Barnacks recently - a 4-digit Model 1, that I think is still for sale at the equivalent of $1400, but in rather battered contidion, and a 3-digit (139, I think) I converted to II that was being offered at $5000, including a 50mm rigid 'cron. The dealer eventually separated them and sold on ebay - can't remember the lens price, but the body went for just over $1000, so not too bad, particularly given that it still had the I top plate in place - Leica had simply fettled and fitted a RF top to it.
I wish I had seen the opportunity to pick up conversions when they were cheap in the late 60s and early 70s, but I was into motorbikes and radio at the time, and thought my Agfa Sillette was the dog's bits.
Interestingly, I have noticed a bit of a trend for older Leica RF gear to start getting more affordable over here - you can even go into a London dealer now and get a III body with usable Elamar for $250 - about half what they were two or three years ago. I guess the internet has helped in that respect - long may it continue!
I think we are in danger of violently agreeing
A new Leica for $80 would have been a dream for anyone living in post-war Britain. If you could find one in the late 1940s, it would have been nearer 10 times that by the time it got into Wallace Heaton's window in London, with 2nd hand values being very high too.
I have seen two very old Barnacks recently - a 4-digit Model 1, that I think is still for sale at the equivalent of $1400, but in rather battered contidion, and a 3-digit (139, I think) I converted to II that was being offered at $5000, including a 50mm rigid 'cron. The dealer eventually separated them and sold on ebay - can't remember the lens price, but the body went for just over $1000, so not too bad, particularly given that it still had the I top plate in place - Leica had simply fettled and fitted a RF top to it.
I wish I had seen the opportunity to pick up conversions when they were cheap in the late 60s and early 70s, but I was into motorbikes and radio at the time, and thought my Agfa Sillette was the dog's bits.
Interestingly, I have noticed a bit of a trend for older Leica RF gear to start getting more affordable over here - you can even go into a London dealer now and get a III body with usable Elamar for $250 - about half what they were two or three years ago. I guess the internet has helped in that respect - long may it continue!
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
john neal said:Tom,
I think we are in danger of violently agreeing
A new Leica for $80 would have been a dream for anyone living in post-war Britain.
oHHHH John, not Britain........postwar black market in wartorn Western Germany - that was the going rate, sometimes, higher, sometime`s lower depending on where and what model camera it was.....
An old Major I once knew in Nuremberg, black market traded many IIIC K grey paint cameras in 1946/47 Mittenwald/Garmisch-Partenkirchen - seems there was alot of displaced Luftwaffen personnel who found their way there to the area after the war and with them came the Leica`s - (I`m sure he got them for like $15 or less and then trade/bartered or sold them to other GI`s for the $80) remember you have this after EVERY war it seems, the black market was very enticing for many GI`s after WW2 and many men came back to the USA much wiser and richer (this Major RETIRED in Germany, in an amazing home and with 3 Mercedes Benz Kabrios *all 280SL`s* and lived very well off till he died in the 1990`s)
Sadly many of these stories will be lost now to time, the majority of the higher ranking officers who were Leica barters are all dead already, passed on years and years ago......
Tom
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LeicaTom
Watch that step!
john neal said:No - definitely NOT pantyhose - those are a vile concoction dreamed up by the devil in the 1960s. I mean real stockings - the kind that go with suspenders and high heels, have a seam down the back and make a woman's legs look knockout.
I'm sure Tom will have some pics to that effect somewhere
This is what John means.........
If I remember right, this was shot on Fuji 100 ASA in my Leica M6 with available light from the frosted windows at f4 or f5.6 or something and on a tripod in this gals house back in 2004....... *meeow*
Tom
PS: That model BTW is only 5 foot 4 inches! Amazing what a low angle can do to those legs, of course anyone who knows my work, knows that leg and butt shots like this are my specialty in pinup photography
Enjoy!
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John Shriver
Well-known
Tom, there were definitely stiff excise taxes and import duties on cameras in the USA in 1945. Excise taxes on a luxury good, import taxes to protect Bausch & Lomb, Kodak, etc.
You didn't pay them on repairs.
There are probably still import duties on "professional" tape recorders, to protect Ampex. "Professional" was defined as having Mic and Line inputs, and the ability to mix them (per channel). You'll note that very few imported tape decks have that capability to this day.
You didn't pay them on repairs.
There are probably still import duties on "professional" tape recorders, to protect Ampex. "Professional" was defined as having Mic and Line inputs, and the ability to mix them (per channel). You'll note that very few imported tape decks have that capability to this day.
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
John Shriver said:
Leitz didn`t import cameras back to the United States until late spring/early summer 1946, by then set price for a Leica IIIC with the Elmar 50 was around $145 (I think I have to double check when I get the time to)
All of the May 1945 to March 1946 Leica production went DIRECTLY to the US Forces In Germany (that`s what I`m going to be writing the book about soon) - I`m sure any cameras being sold by Leitz NYC in New York City in the summer and autumn of 1945 were "deadstock" 1939 Leica IIIa`s and IIIb`s that didn`t sell before Pearl Harbor or didn`t get appropriated by the US Armed Forces during WW2
I will go through my records and also through my issues of Leica Photoraphy and see if I can get an up to date 1946/47 price list to show what cameras and accessories cost here at that time
Tom
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