LeicaFoReVer
Addicted to Rangefinders
I dont understand the fuss going around about M9M. RF users have been discussing how nice it would be monochrome leica since M9 came out and you should be proud of yourself as Leica made it real, except the price part 
) If it was the half price then it would be something, wouldn't it?
Well, anyway I personally did not like the images from M9M. It does not look something extraordinarily different/better. My sigma dp1 was giving way better dynamic range! Seriously. ISO 10,000 thing is something ok.
I think Leica is really not something anymore that serves to the majority of the users here IMHO.
) If it was the half price then it would be something, wouldn't it?Well, anyway I personally did not like the images from M9M. It does not look something extraordinarily different/better. My sigma dp1 was giving way better dynamic range! Seriously. ISO 10,000 thing is something ok.
I think Leica is really not something anymore that serves to the majority of the users here IMHO.
_goodtimez
Well-known
I think Leica really made one nice camera with the M9M but what a price !
Leica does business with software brands, why don't they do the same with film brands ?
That would also promote their range of film cameras.
Even though I can buy the M9M I won't cause I love too much the smell of film in the morning
Leica does business with software brands, why don't they do the same with film brands ?
That would also promote their range of film cameras.
Even though I can buy the M9M I won't cause I love too much the smell of film in the morning
dave lackey
Veteran
Do Nikon forums bitch about the $8000 D3s? Just wondering?
finguanzo
Well-known
Do Nikon forums bitch about the $8000 D3s? Just wondering?
I dont think so, but then again, a D4 is one firmware upgrade away from making you breakfast and doing your taxes.....
dave lackey
Veteran
Which is exactly the anti-thesis of Leica. Different in every respect and those who want the D3/D4, etc. they are only a click away online.:angel:
finguanzo
Well-known
I understand that, and what I enjoy about shooting with my Leica's, but, if a D4 can take good photos, flush my toilet, and clean up after me, for the same price Id expect an M.. to have a current lcd, and ccd/cmos, since it is such a simple minimilist design.
I figure that even with Leica luxury pricing, Its still way cheaper to make an M.. than a D4, since they dont have to add all the toilet flushing, cleanup, breakfast making mechanisms....
DRabbit
Registered
Do Nikon forums bitch about the $8000 D3s? Just wondering?
Maybe the difference is that Nikon offers a whole range of digital cameras that pretty much suit everyone's budget -- so if you want to play in their sandbox you can. Harder to say that about Leica...
Not saying they should make a whole range of cameras (or could even), but it's easy to see how the lack of options might cause a little frustration.
I also think it's a hint that the M10 will end up retailing at about $10K when it's released. If true, it will mean the price of their digital M will have doubled in 5 years, whereas something like the 5D's price has stayed nearly the same. It makes Leica look greedy (whether true or not).
It's completely within their right to charge what they want of course. It's just a shame there are some who feel their quickly rising prices are excluding them out of the option completely.
damien.murphy
Damien
To answer the question posed, I suppose anyone who shoots black and white, would like a digitial rangefinder, and has that much disposable income. Unfortunately I imagine that bracket excludes a good portion of current Leica film shooters, not to mention perhaps M9 owners who simply could not afford to drop the same again on a second body..
dave lackey
Veteran
It appears that not many here on RFF read Thorsten Overgaard's article on the upcoming M10 and what may happen with an M9-M. The point he made was that the Monochrom is really like a special edition. Not like the Hermes SE but something special. I am sure if the market bears it, Leica could expand production.
Another reviewer discussed on-line that the market is for those who don't want to be distracted at all with color, either thinking about it or having the option. More like a one camera one lens user.
That is pretty much me incidentally.Comparing a digital rangefinder market with a DSLR is useless. I used multiple Nikon DSLRs for a decade and will not go back. THAT is why I could care less about the price. If I want one (new or used) I will earn the money with a 2nd or 3rd job or a few extra gigs and buy it for my work. It is the ONLY game in town and my preferred choice. But that's just me.:angel:
urban_alchemist
Well-known
Well, I just caved. 10,000 usable ISO (with that amazing detail visible in the 100% crops) coupled with the Noctilux was just too tempting to pass up...
Can't wait for it to arrive...
Can't wait for it to arrive...
dave lackey
Veteran
dave lackey
Veteran
The question that has never been posed, so it is still unanswered:
When does $8000 qualify someone as wealthy?
I have a lot of friends working two jobs and sacrificing to buy their own passion, carbon fiber bicycles that cost way more than a Leica M9-M.
Most people I know lose almost that amount pissing away the depreciation on their new SUVs every year!
Almost verybody I know spends almost that much eating out every year and on entertainment.
Nobody calls a Nikon $8000 DSLR buyer a wealthy snob, pretender, arsehole or anything else IIRC.
So, when does a purchase of Leica camera qualify one as wealthy? Very shallow logic that doesn't hold water IMO.
When does $8000 qualify someone as wealthy?
I have a lot of friends working two jobs and sacrificing to buy their own passion, carbon fiber bicycles that cost way more than a Leica M9-M.
Most people I know lose almost that amount pissing away the depreciation on their new SUVs every year!
Almost verybody I know spends almost that much eating out every year and on entertainment.
Nobody calls a Nikon $8000 DSLR buyer a wealthy snob, pretender, arsehole or anything else IIRC.
So, when does a purchase of Leica camera qualify one as wealthy? Very shallow logic that doesn't hold water IMO.
urban_alchemist
Well-known
swoop
Well-known
So, when does a purchase of Leica camera qualify one as wealthy? Very shallow logic that doesn't hold water IMO.
I think the complaint most people have about spending money on a Leica is that you can get something just as capable for far cheaper. Just like anything else, cars, clothes, furniture, food, heck even dogs. So I guess it's the spending a lot more for something just as functional as something cheaper is the qualifier not for being "wealthy" but for being a luxury item.
braver
Well-known
The question that has never been posed, so it is still unanswered:
When does $8000 qualify someone as wealthy?
I have a lot of friends working two jobs and sacrificing to buy their own passion, carbon fiber bicycles that cost way more than a Leica M9-M.
Most people I know lose almost that amount pissing away the depreciation on their new SUVs every year!
Almost verybody I know spends almost that much eating out every year and on entertainment.
Nobody calls a Nikon $8000 DSLR buyer a wealthy snob, pretender, arsehole or anything else IIRC.
So, when does a purchase of Leica camera qualify one as wealthy? Very shallow logic that doesn't hold water IMO.
Well there you're hitting on something I've been wondering about as well. This is an espensive hobby for sure, but when it comes to expensive hobbies an $8000 camera is hardly special. I must admit hanging out somewhere in the upper tiers of middle class, at least I think I do, not sure. But like you say, I see plenty of expensive cars, hifi, golf kit, bikes, diving gear... I think you need large format gear to make a real impression in this world. That said, $8000 is a bit of a stretch (especially since digital cameras haven't quite proven their longevity) to me, but if it's your primary passion I don't think it so far out.
The top offerings from Nikon and Canon are just as expensive. I bet their owners are no less snobby and would recover them if they could, but they would pick nylon webbing and carbon patterns instead of calfskin leather
fotomeow
name under my name
You've taken an unpopular position in this forum ....... THANK YOU for stepping up and sharing with us. I do agree with you about the ISO advantages with an f1 lens for this kit.
And just a short anecdote, I just heard about a gent who bought a $9000 shotgun that he only uses a few times a year for hunting, yet wears old clothes and shoes which he hand sews and adds duct tape to in order to avoid spending money on new clothing. And people don't understand his values. Laughable?
I don't know, I imagine there are a few of us out there who threw down $$ on an M9/M9P/M9M, yet hand sew our clothes, or solely ride a bike instead of buying a new $25k car. For me, this position is actually quite refreshing. But I am a sucker for smashing stereotypes.
Richard G
Veteran
We need to see more pictures before we can be confirmed in our dissatisfaction with the images. Jonathan Slack said most of the early users were over the moon with what it can do.
urban_alchemist
Well-known
Pleasure. I really don't understand the ire aimed at this camera and its owners.
The Hermes, fine. I get it. It's an M9 with a fancy suit. It does nothing unique, yet adds a bucket-load to the price.
The Summicron APO, I kinda get the hating there too (though I don't necessarily agree). It's hideously expensive and is 'just' another f2.0 lense. Heck, there's another Summicron for far less (which I own, and love). *sigh*
But the MM... hell, everyone on this forum should be cheering Leica for creating it. We all shoot B+W, and here is a camera that truly does something unique that completely fits into our ethos as a group.
Yes, it's expensive and I'm very lucky that I can afford it, but all the haters here should realise that if it is a success, the idea and/or the tech will trickle down to other manufacturers who can create similar b+w-only cameras in much higher volumes at much lower prices.
Why the hell would anyone give a company crap for creating something which so many of us want, just because (as is expected for a niche player with low sales) it is more expensive than we - yes, even me - would like?!?!
braver
Well-known
Argh, no! SLR users have no taste (>.<) (just kidding!)
dave lackey
Veteran
That is part of it. But what business is it of anyone's except (gasp) jealousy, or some ideological position? Who cares what people spend their money on? Seriously. It's their money.
If I decide to set 10% of my Social Security check in an envelope every month, find a part-time job at the grocery store bagging groceries, and sell what little I have left since I lost my job in 2008, why should anyone give a rat's if I purchased a new or used M9-M or even an M10 down the road?
Ramen noodles aren't so bad, really. Spam is a good source of protein. And water washes it all down! I can do that kind of diet for a short-term in order to get what I bloody well prefer....