Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Just as much as any film loading is anachronism.
Bessa R was based on economy Cosina SLR platform which was in use for several brands.
Including cheap Nikon SLRs. SLRs are for convenience. Door is a must.
Nikon F is the quarry tractor. Why shouldn't it be rugged.
Obviously, you haven't repaired any bottom loading camera.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
6) Germans used to know what elegance and technology is.
I was by Koln Cathedral two weeks ago, where some smart arses have camera store.
Series 0 was on the display. Soo marvelous.
Richard G
Veteran
I can load my M6 in 5 seconds. Just saying.
shawn
Veteran
Start to finish? (Removing the bottom cover, loading film, installing the bottom cover)
That is about what it takes on an R8 or F5 (without rushing) and IMO they are quicker to load than any M. Also easier to load while walking as you don't have to hang onto a disconnected piece.
The R8 has a smaller start position for the leader than the F5. That takes slightly longer but it is quicker in not having to push down the rewind stem. The F5 is faster in being ready to shoot though as it auto advances the film to #1 as soon as the door closes. It is ready before you can even get the camera to your eye.
R8 Loading I can do the same with the F5 later today.
EDIT: F5 loading pretty much the same time as the R8
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I wouldn’t want to rush the loading of any M.
Fumble fingered me would drop the baseplate. That’s the reason why three hands are required. 😆
Fumble fingered me would drop the baseplate. That’s the reason why three hands are required. 😆
Cascadilla
Well-known
The structural questions I would leave to engineers, but there are successful examples of bottom loading, hinged door and totally removable backs in terms of film flatness and over all sharpness so I think this comes down to design preferences and quality control on the part of the camera companies. I also think that whatever system we learn first will always feel like the best to us, and once we're used to it change can be difficult. Nobody would argue that loading 4x5 sheet film holders in a darkroom or changing bag is quick, but I did it successfully thousands of times when I shot 4x5 for a living. So use whatever camera feels right in all of its various features but don't worry but how it loads film as long as you can do it consistently.
38Deardorff
Established
I don't think it matters at all....in the photographic scheme of things. They're all engineering, production choices. The fact that today we're still able to use a camera built 50 or 100 yrs ago is a grand achievement in itself.
And as far as digital... (not to start a war) I'm pretty sure that won't be the case (regardless of their advantages)
And as far as digital... (not to start a war) I'm pretty sure that won't be the case (regardless of their advantages)
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
And if I load my IIc in 25 seconds, how does it relevant to anything these days? Rewinding film is the longest time in the process anyway.
But I'm not the one who starts honking if car ahead me is not the rush to take off on the green light.
shawn
Veteran
I always felt like 4 hands would be best on my M3 or Barnacks. 1 to hold the camera, 1 to hold the baseplate and the other two to handle the cassette and the takeup spool. Or two hands if I have a table to rest the camera and baseplate on.
Richard G
Veteran
When I started I had the M2 in its case. I’d put the baseplate in the case while changing film. I still don’t mind the M2 loading. It’s 100% reliable. There’s a couple of films where the emulsion is thin and wandering and there’s nothing like getting it tightly tucked under the spring clamp of a take-up spool, compared to keeping it secure in the later take-up tulip. I
Ko.Fe of course is right as usual. The non-crank Leica rewind is not fast. My M2 was serviced by a Leica expert in 2007 and he restored the clutch component of the film rewind which made it a lot easier and quicker.
I use little film these days and I can’t remember the last time I changed rolls while I was out. I remember missing a shot between rolls in NZ with the M6 in 2009.
Ko.Fe of course is right as usual. The non-crank Leica rewind is not fast. My M2 was serviced by a Leica expert in 2007 and he restored the clutch component of the film rewind which made it a lot easier and quicker.
I use little film these days and I can’t remember the last time I changed rolls while I was out. I remember missing a shot between rolls in NZ with the M6 in 2009.
Richard G
Veteran
And that too is tricky if you’re wedded to the SBOOI finder. And taking it off can be a headache if it’s a loose fit and your paper gasket is just right for holding it tight. So I load the IIIf in my lap and need a seat. I’ve done it squatting, precarious. I hate sitting on the ground.
Retro-Grouch
Veteran
No, no, no! You have one of your assistants load it for you, after he's handed you a freshly loaded one. Load your own camera? That's for the peasants!
shawn
Veteran
In high school I was the assistant/peasant! We carrried 5 or 6 F3HPs with MD4s and big Sunpak (I think) flashes on brackets with battery packs (quantum maybe) on straps along wtih a Domke F2 loaded with glass and a brick or two of film depending upon if we were doing 1 or 2 weddings that day. And the trusty sharpy to label every roll. Some weekends were 2 and 2, my shoulders/neck were rough after those!
I'm way out of practice but could reload them quickly and accurately.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I shot with a IIIf for a year some 20 years ago and my best loading time was 45 seconds while walking with the camera around my neck. I used the card method. The last time I tried to load a IIIf I couldn’t do it. The film kept getting caught and I ended up cutting the leader. I have a IIIG coming so practice practice practice.
Retro-Grouch
Veteran
Whoa. You weren't an assistant, you were a pack mule! And someone should have called the SPCA.
WoodallP
Pragmatist Barnack lover
As an aside; I bought a good price Leica II a while back, converted from a 1930 Leica I. It was hard to load, so I took it apart; the pressure plate was upside down! It makes a difference to everything!
santino
FSU gear head
Yeah, as mentioned before, over enigineered. There is only one right way.
WoodallP
Pragmatist Barnack lover
Yes but it took me five minutes to find out. You can get to the innards of a Barnack much quicker than to a back loader.
WoodallP
Pragmatist Barnack lover
Replying to myself. All this is in the past anyway. My M10 is a bottom loader and it’s quite quick as long as I can get the batteries. Any old camera we have is just what we chose to live with and use. I prefer to use one of my Barnacks to my M10, just because I like it.
Retro-Grouch
Veteran
No offense, but I always thought that the M10, as a "bottom loading" digital camera, was a real hoot. It exemplified the conservative thinking of pretty much every digital camera manufacturer: don't upset the customer by making it look too different. The reality is that there is no need whatsoever for a digital camera to look or handle like an SLR from 1975; the classic configuration of 35mm cameras was dictated by the need to have film move horizontally across the back of the camera, advanced by a knob or thumb lever. Both of those constraints are nonexistent in a digital camera.
Of course, even in the film era, as motorized advance and button control became the norm, there were some manufacturers who tried to push the envelope, like Yashica:
They bombed.
Sometimes I think photographers' conservatism is their own worst enemy.