Why can't I load my 120 film onto my stainless steel reel properly?

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Negative said:
Yeah, I think I'm going to get a Hewes reel. I've heard good things about them and this is seriously pissing me off; I lost a lot of good photos due to this
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Id get a 35mm and a 120 reel. I need to get a second hewes 35mm reel one of these days to process two rolls in my 16oz tank.
 
good advice from BillBingham

good advice from BillBingham

BillBingham2 said:
Another tip is to run your fingers over the top and bottom of the reel to see if you feel any film (pointy sharp) edges. All you should feel is smooth steel if your film is loaded correctly. Run your fingers over it when it's not loaded and that's what you should feel when it's loaded. If your reel is messed up take the film off and try again.
(;->
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Very good advice. I had troubles with 120 film on SS reels when I first started. A friend of mine gave me the same advice. It worked for me. The edges of film should be even when you feel the top and bottom of the reel - going from inside out or vice versa. If you feel an uneven edge it is an indication the film buckled or kinked at that location, back off the film until the edge disappears and start over from that point.

It takes a some practice, but once you get the hang of it... it goes pretty smoothly.

Good luck
 
I've always found loading 120 to be much easier that loading 35mm. Usually the reels are much sturdier and don't bend at all. Kind of hard to give advice, but just relax and go slow, keep a slight bend in the film, turn the reel not the film, and turn the reel no more than about a 1/4 turn each time. The hand that holds the film should not move. The film should slip through your fingers as you turn the reel with the other hand.
 
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I get all my stuff at Adorama, never lets me down
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dnk512 said:
Negative, where did you learn the technique to load the film on the metal reels? There are lots of tips online. The biggest impact on my results was to keep the film bend (curved) along its long axis while rolling it along its short axis. The bending must start from the very beginning. You may have to trim the corners of the end that goes on the clip to be able to bend it at the start.

Also, as others said, keep checking your work with your fingers and back out as necessary. Finally, do not expect to do it in the dark if you are having difficulty with the lights on.
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Guys, I can say from personal experience that the reels Negative used are defective and that the issues he experienced have nothing to do with technique. This isn't about plastic versus steel or practice. When I returned my bent reels to Adorama a guy with 30 years of professional film processing experience tried to give me a tutorial on loading a stainless reel and...he couldn't load film on the reel I was returning. The reels in question are DEFECTIVE. It's not hard to spool film on a good reel.
 
I've no 120 experience, but I can only successfully load a Hewes steel reel when the reel is resting vertically (on its edges) on a hard, flat surface, like a desk or counter top. That allows me to rotate the reel while keeping the film in place correctly. If I try to load a Hewes reel in a changing bag (I don't have a darkroom), I'll botch it because the reel won't rotate freely against the cloth of the bag, so I must hold it in one hand and the film in the other.

I suspect this is just a personal quirk, but I wonder if others load steel reels by setting them on edge on a hard surface.
 
snausages said:
Guys, I can say from personal experience that the reels Negative used are defective and that the issues he experienced have nothing to do with technique. This isn't about plastic versus steel or practice. When I returned my bent reels to Adorama a guy with 30 years of professional film processing experience tried to give me a tutorial on loading a stainless reel and...he couldn't load film on the reel I was returning. The reels in question are DEFECTIVE. It's not hard to spool film on a good reel.
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Thank you so much. I wanted to say this but I didn't want to seem like I thought I was hot stuff or anything :)

This is the reel in question: http://www.adorama.com/DKR120.html
 
Another tip which I've found helpful is to remember that everything depends on the start. If you don't get the film loaded properly on the steel reel in the beginning, it's impossible to "roll out the defect" later on in the rolling process. So when I get the end of the 120 film under the metal clip, I feel around the corners of the film to make sure that the film is perfectly centered under the clip and squared to the edges of the reel. The error of even the slightest tilt will magnify itself all the way to the end of the roll.
 
Check the reel for any deformation, if it passes, you just need to practice some more. Just use the 120 paper backing (without film), don't sacrifice more rolls.

I wouldn't switch to plastic. Steel reels are really easy once you get the hang of it. Just like riding a bicycle.

One thing to watch out is the direction the wire rotates, get it backwards and you'd be messing up film left and right.
 
Bill do you have trouble with edge spots using the freestyle apron?
I have old Kodak ones and suggest the new freestyle to a friend. He is getting spots top and bottom where the "lasagna" touches the film.
 
I bought Plastic Patterson type system (from Freestyle, I believe), and find it effortless to load 120. This is the set with the wide, wing-like tabs that you cannot miss while loading. The only disadvantage is that they use more developer volume.
Of course, I still sometimes use steel, in the hope that one day "it will all come together" and the film will just slide on. Hasn't happened , yet, though !!
 
HelenOster said:
I'm checking this with our purchasing department, and will post again.
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Wow... I've heard both good and bad things about Adorama here... but I'd like to see other companies embracing the web like this and being proactive about finding out what's going on with their customers. Maybe Leica should take the hint and start perusing our forums for complaints and product improvements.
 
Even the best steel reels can come bent or become bent in use. But they can be straightened: I use a steel rule to periodically check all my reels, to see that the span between the two coils is the same all-round. If not, the reel can be bent a bit to straighten it. I prefer Kindermann and Hewes reels; certainly poor quality reels make things harder.
imokruok said:
Another tip which I've found helpful is to remember that everything depends on the start. If you don't get the film loaded properly on the steel reel in the beginning, it's impossible to "roll out the defect" later on in the rolling process. So when I get the end of the 120 film under the metal clip, I feel around the corners of the film to make sure that the film is perfectly centered under the clip and squared to the edges of the reel. The error of even the slightest tilt will magnify itself all the way to the end of the roll.
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Agreed; I keep a finger trailing on the film just reeled to sense any kinks as they form. And, important to keep the film *loosely* wound on the reels, so I push the film a bit as I roll it on rather than pull it tight which causes kinking.

The smaller the wire thickness and the tighter the reel wire is wound, the more difficult it is to use... For instance, a 220 film reel made for a 8.5cm diameter tank is a bear to load at best! Much easier to use the bigger 11cm diameter tanks and the matching reels made with larger wire.

Thin floppy film is also more difficult... Ilford used to make thin-based 72-exposure rolls of HP-5 in 35mm. And there was a special developing reel to wind that thin film so closely layered it would still fit that standard 8.5cm tank. The reel was actually plastic rather than coiled steel wire, but it was sure tough to load.
 
Another tip for 120, roll the film *out* of the paper first before loading it into the spool.

This will make it simpler because you don't have to fight the paper back *and* it makes centering the film on the clip easier because you are loading the other end of the film first (the one with the sticky tape folded to make a stiffer edge than just film --> easier to center on the clip).

I had more problem with clip reels in 35mm, there I agree with Fred, find a non-clip reels.
 
Message from Helen at Adorama

Message from Helen at Adorama

Negative said:
Thank you.
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I'm still awaiting clarification from the purchasing department as to whether this has been reported as a widespread problem, however in the meantime, please do return any reels that appear damaged for a refund.

Full instructions on how to do this can be found here:
http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=FAQ#HowToReturn
 
-doomed- said:
is it a hewes reel?
I had a cheaper stainless reel and had the same issues . The hewes reel just works better , the design seems to center the film and allows it to go right on.
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Hewes heavy duty stainless. Worth the extra cost.

Also, try loading it in the light, and remember to a: slightly pinch the sides of the film, and b: keep tension on it as you wind it on.
 
120 is certainly more difficult than 35mm, I always take longer to load 120 than 35mm even though the 35mm is twice as long. I have the Kalt/no-name brand 120 reels also. I find ignoring the clip other than using it as a locator for the starting point helps. I also tear 120 film from the paper and load with the tape end of the film first. VERY slight pressure to the edges to keep the film cupped just enough to fit in-between the coils of the reel. Hewes reels in 35mm are miles better than the others- I ran film for 30 years on various reels before getting Hewes 35mm reels and being stunned at the difference. I just got back to 120 film and may spring for the Hewes reels for that too.
 
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