Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
In the "eyes of the public", Michael Jackson is more interesting than properly funding public school teachers' salaries.
I wouldn't judge a lot of things by the "eyes of the public".
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
I don't know if printing's dead or who killed it but scaring newcomers sure doesn't help:
As a blanket statement, that's simply wrong. Develop in coffee + C, stop with vinegar, fix in simple sodium thiosulfate. The latter is only a mild irritant, certainly a lot less harmful than stuff we all have under the kitchen sink. (An MSDS for sodium thiosulfate is linked at its Wikipedia article.)
I've just begun developing, though not enlarging, B&W at home a few months ago and had to convince myself and my (scientist) wife first. I'm not an expert (photographer or chemist) by a long shot but I do like to look up the facts for myself. Glad I did, it's been fun to do.
Used chemicals may be a different story, due to the washed out silver, but my understanding is that the bugs in the sewage treatment plant are at risk, not so much the user.
As a blanket statement, that's simply wrong. Develop in coffee + C, stop with vinegar, fix in simple sodium thiosulfate. The latter is only a mild irritant, certainly a lot less harmful than stuff we all have under the kitchen sink. (An MSDS for sodium thiosulfate is linked at its Wikipedia article.)
I've just begun developing, though not enlarging, B&W at home a few months ago and had to convince myself and my (scientist) wife first. I'm not an expert (photographer or chemist) by a long shot but I do like to look up the facts for myself. Glad I did, it's been fun to do.
Used chemicals may be a different story, due to the washed out silver, but my understanding is that the bugs in the sewage treatment plant are at risk, not so much the user.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
Yes the "bugs" are at risk. Silver is an effective anti-biotic. It's used on the eyes of newborn infants and was commonly used before the invention of penicillan. Its use is being revived because so many "bugs" have developed resistance to the "wonder drugs".
If anything, the silver absorbed through our skin may be keeping us healthier than photographers who wear gloves or do it all on the computer.
If anything, the silver absorbed through our skin may be keeping us healthier than photographers who wear gloves or do it all on the computer.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Not hardly. I've only ever had one student with any kind of allergic trouble working in the photo lab. It wasn't the chemistry, she had to be careful about touching the sink because she was allergic to nickel.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
My sink is fiberglass over plywood and the faucets are are unplated bronze. I don't want no chicks getting sick in there.
AgentX
Well-known
Digital technology and printing does what 85% of high-volume pros and casual users need better than film. The artists and hobbyists for whom wet printing is an advantage or necessity are on the market fringe.
And most people wouldn't know the difference between a wet print and a decent inkjet unless you put them side-by-side, and even then only a tiny percentage would care about the difference once they saw it.
And most people wouldn't know the difference between a wet print and a decent inkjet unless you put them side-by-side, and even then only a tiny percentage would care about the difference once they saw it.
ARCHIVIST
Well-known
I taught photography for many years and now I am a photographic technical officer at technical (TAFE) college.
We have two full size teaching darkrooms each with 16 enlargers in them - right up to 4x5 capability. There are six dedicated film processing rooms and two dedicated film loading rooms as well as a colour processor for both neg and tranny.
This year there was an increase of 30% in both film and chemical usage with many students taking advantage of the after hours access to the darkrooms.
The interest is still out there and wet silver has taken on a fine art tag.
Regards
Peter
PS In over 37 years working with film and chemistry I have only ever come across two persons that reacted negatively ( no pun intended ) to photographic chemistry.
We have two full size teaching darkrooms each with 16 enlargers in them - right up to 4x5 capability. There are six dedicated film processing rooms and two dedicated film loading rooms as well as a colour processor for both neg and tranny.
This year there was an increase of 30% in both film and chemical usage with many students taking advantage of the after hours access to the darkrooms.
The interest is still out there and wet silver has taken on a fine art tag.
Regards
Peter
PS In over 37 years working with film and chemistry I have only ever come across two persons that reacted negatively ( no pun intended ) to photographic chemistry.
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Bob Michaels
nobody special
Today I saw a friend who teach classes in "black & white photography / darkroom" at the local community college. All of his classes filled up early, total of 70 students. It has been like this for the last several years.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I wouldn't, either, Gabriel.
But it sounds better as an opening sentence than "So..."
dap
Established
Al, I used to smoke 2 packs a day so it is going to take more than one
Next time I mix a drink I'll skip the rocks glass and break out a tumbler in your honor.
thomasw_
Well-known
It died...holy tubesocks?! Why, I just got out of my borrowed darkroom space to find out its over? I guess I'll have to find another space, then!
clayne
shoot film or die
Far from dead here. Sitting in front of the computer and twiddling with scans (or worse yet, digital) is no comparison to the productive and uninterrupted time just relaxing in the darkroom making things. Physical real things. Tangible items one can hold, look at, and pass around or frame on a wall without requiring a computer monitor to see the results. You guys don't know what you're missing.
Shot with a Nikon F3 and printed on Agfa Multicontrast Premium. Toned in Selenium.
Shot with a Nikon F3 and printed on Agfa Multicontrast Premium. Toned in Selenium.
Attachments
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mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
Because it is impossible to produce physical prints using a digital workflow?
I have no problem with people printing in the darkroom. If you enjoy that and your results I think that's great. Wonderful.
Absurd anti-digital rants are less so.
(and, yes, I do have a better printer but this one's fine for work prints after scanning)
...Mike
clayne
shoot film or die
Well of course it's possible. But there's an actual beauty to just letting go of the need to control every last facet of the image (digitally) and going straight analog the entire way. Sure, I had to scan the print to make it visible on the Internet - but that's only because I can't feasibly just hand it to you easily. But that being said, it's an after-process, not a necessity.
The fact is, chemicals, toners, stop-lights, music blaring in the darkroom while I watch a print materialize in the developer.. It's much more satisfying than staring at yet another screen to get something done.
I stare at screens every damn day of my working life and I like to take significant breaks from it. I don't need them in every facet of my life.
And let's not even get into a silver gelatin vs inkjet debate.
BTW: There's nothing absurd about it. I don't have to sit around and appear PC and talk about how digital is great for this and great for that (it IS great for sports photography). There's no law saying I have to like or even care for digital technology in the slightest and I don't see why people have to continually guilt-trip others over it.
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robinsonphotography
Established
I've worked in a darkroom. I've also uploaded files online to WHCC and gotten prints the next day. And my hands didn't smell awful afterwards. But as clayne just said, it isn't the same as blasting pink floyd and forgetting about email/interenet/everythign else and just focusing on making a killer print. It is nowhere near as fun.
If I had more space and more time, I would love to have my own darkroom for wet printing since the one I used to use was torn out (a school darkroom....replaced with iMacs. breaks my heart to see, even though I'm a mostly digital guy--they should never have done that), but it requires a lot of space and time, so I just can't do that.
Most pro photographers I know, at least in the portrait/family/wedding businesses, upload to millers or whcc because printing is fast and easy, and even though a black and white print from there will never look as good as a true black and white print made after hours in the darkroom, it is a lot faster and cheaper (with proofing usually it's one print and you're done....in the darkroom lots of paper is often thrown away, at least in my experience).
I've been to multiple studios now where the old darkrooms are just used as changing rooms or storage now, because they were just too much work to maintain and clients needed faster turnaroudn times that only digital could offer.
If I had more space and more time, I would love to have my own darkroom for wet printing since the one I used to use was torn out (a school darkroom....replaced with iMacs. breaks my heart to see, even though I'm a mostly digital guy--they should never have done that), but it requires a lot of space and time, so I just can't do that.
Most pro photographers I know, at least in the portrait/family/wedding businesses, upload to millers or whcc because printing is fast and easy, and even though a black and white print from there will never look as good as a true black and white print made after hours in the darkroom, it is a lot faster and cheaper (with proofing usually it's one print and you're done....in the darkroom lots of paper is often thrown away, at least in my experience).
I've been to multiple studios now where the old darkrooms are just used as changing rooms or storage now, because they were just too much work to maintain and clients needed faster turnaroudn times that only digital could offer.
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Al Kaplan
Veteran
Perhaps it's the standing rather than sitting, the walking from the sink the few feet to the enlarger and back that is a big factor in the actual process? I like the challenge of making shadow patterns with my hands under the enlarger as I burn and dodge. Well at this point it's more instinctive than challenge, but I don't waste all that much paper.
When I'm printing 6x9 on 8x10 paper I can trim the paper to 7x10 before using it and the 1x10 strip is enough for 3 or 4 test strips.
Wet printing can seem like a slow tedious endeavor, and in the beginning it is. Once you've mastered the techniques it goes pretty fast, and the gurgling of the print washer has a calming effect. It also saves money in the Florida summer because it's a lot cheaper to air condition a single 6x9 foot windowless room than the entire house during the heat of the day. I can listen to the 'Stones and the 'Dead and smoke cigarettes without anybody complaining.
I guess it's what you get used to. If anybody wants to experience a real working darkroom they're welcome to try mine. It's set up for printing negatives to 6x9cm and 11x14 inch prints easily, but I do have 16x20 trays. It's an old fashioned dedicated darkoom, not a table in the spare room.
http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com
When I'm printing 6x9 on 8x10 paper I can trim the paper to 7x10 before using it and the 1x10 strip is enough for 3 or 4 test strips.
Wet printing can seem like a slow tedious endeavor, and in the beginning it is. Once you've mastered the techniques it goes pretty fast, and the gurgling of the print washer has a calming effect. It also saves money in the Florida summer because it's a lot cheaper to air condition a single 6x9 foot windowless room than the entire house during the heat of the day. I can listen to the 'Stones and the 'Dead and smoke cigarettes without anybody complaining.
I guess it's what you get used to. If anybody wants to experience a real working darkroom they're welcome to try mine. It's set up for printing negatives to 6x9cm and 11x14 inch prints easily, but I do have 16x20 trays. It's an old fashioned dedicated darkoom, not a table in the spare room.
http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
I'd join you for a session - if you were a little closer Al!...as long as we could play 'Deep Purple' stuff!, and you keep that damn monkey outa the way!
Dave.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I printed yesterday morning, knocked out a stack of 1114's of some recent stuff I haven't even made proofsheets of yet. I'd shot a lot while I was away and have been running films between jobs and getting ready for classes to start. While paging up the negs I had a bunch I was anxious to see. I'll do proofsheets tomorrow, after I get the last of the films run.
A wonderful morning it was, I come out of the darkroom while the prints wash, have a quick lunch then get them on the screens to dry. Feels like I've actually done something instead of just having the tired eyes I got after spending a good part of the afternoon with PS getting a job finished up.
Digital has made a lot of things faster, but it hasn't made much about working as a photographer more fun for me.
A wonderful morning it was, I come out of the darkroom while the prints wash, have a quick lunch then get them on the screens to dry. Feels like I've actually done something instead of just having the tired eyes I got after spending a good part of the afternoon with PS getting a job finished up.
Digital has made a lot of things faster, but it hasn't made much about working as a photographer more fun for me.
Morca007
Matt
For all my naysaying, good things will happen.
I was at the local lab today, getting some negatives developed and chatting with the proprietor, and somehow left with a Beseler enlarger (set up for 6x6 and missing only the baseboard), and all the gear needed to make wet prints (grain focuser, trays, tongs, even a safety light)! The owner and I have become friends over the last couple of years, as he is glad to see any young people interested in film, and I am glad to find someone knowledgable in film. Apparently, he was ready to throw it away, and was about to call me to see if I wanted it before I came in!
I was at the local lab today, getting some negatives developed and chatting with the proprietor, and somehow left with a Beseler enlarger (set up for 6x6 and missing only the baseboard), and all the gear needed to make wet prints (grain focuser, trays, tongs, even a safety light)! The owner and I have become friends over the last couple of years, as he is glad to see any young people interested in film, and I am glad to find someone knowledgable in film. Apparently, he was ready to throw it away, and was about to call me to see if I wanted it before I came in!