paulfish4570
Veteran
can't buy a camera that costs more than both of my cars and my two scooters combined. and that's body only ...
f16sunshine
Moderator
I loved the M8. Used a pair for 4 years. It was a great "compact" compliment to my DSLR.
When it came out I tried and then took a pass on the M9. It was not enough of an upgrade and I had a 5Dii when denser files were desired.
Then the Fuji line with it's similar form factor, great light capturing ability, and 50mm Summilux asph like lens rendering (XF35mm) came along and displaced the M8 from my workflow. I mostly use digital for work projects and color.
The Digital M's are great tools and fun to use but if final output and performance in use is the goal there are better options (much).
I'm still very, very intriqued with the MM and may one day jump in.
I enjoy B+W film workflow for now and get my RF kicks there
When it came out I tried and then took a pass on the M9. It was not enough of an upgrade and I had a 5Dii when denser files were desired.
Then the Fuji line with it's similar form factor, great light capturing ability, and 50mm Summilux asph like lens rendering (XF35mm) came along and displaced the M8 from my workflow. I mostly use digital for work projects and color.
The Digital M's are great tools and fun to use but if final output and performance in use is the goal there are better options (much).
I'm still very, very intriqued with the MM and may one day jump in.
I enjoy B+W film workflow for now and get my RF kicks there
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
before the stone throwing and nailing me to the cross
I have had numerous digitals for brief stints... RD1, Ricoh grd I,II,III, Olympus E1, DP1M,DP2M
IN Leica digital: DLux 3, Digilux 2, X1, X2, M8, M-E
they ALL preformed with ease, Beautiful in fact, but my heart was not in it
I'm not knocking DIGITAL, just for me I get bored
with film there is always a level of anticipation and suspense while developing
Quite simply I'm envious of you ALL who succeed with creating a beautiful digital file
me, I'm never happy with what I produce
so I go back to what I know and love...Film
I have had numerous digitals for brief stints... RD1, Ricoh grd I,II,III, Olympus E1, DP1M,DP2M
IN Leica digital: DLux 3, Digilux 2, X1, X2, M8, M-E
they ALL preformed with ease, Beautiful in fact, but my heart was not in it
I'm not knocking DIGITAL, just for me I get bored
with film there is always a level of anticipation and suspense while developing
Quite simply I'm envious of you ALL who succeed with creating a beautiful digital file
me, I'm never happy with what I produce
so I go back to what I know and love...Film
kxl
Social Documentary
I voted "it is too expensive" but I have to qualify that. The cost of the gear I currently own easily exceeds the cost of an M, but while I have no qualms about buying gear over time, I find it difficult to shell out $5K+ on any one piece of gear. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, but that is what is holding me back from buying an M240.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Weird question to me - I bought two M8, an M9, M240 and a Monochrom over the years.
To me the only valid answers are
1. can't/won't afford it, although, with the present M8 prices even that response has limited validity.
2. Prefer something else.
To me the only valid answers are
1. can't/won't afford it, although, with the present M8 prices even that response has limited validity.
2. Prefer something else.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I initially thought this was rather a strange poll ... but it's actually quite interesting to hear people's various reasons for not getting the digital M.
I have no reason because I actually bought an M240 but it took me the best part of a year to convince myself to do so. I really wanted what the 240 can do ... but the price! That was some hurdle! A friend picked up my 240 last night ... well I handed it to him actually and when I told him what it had cost me he put it down again quite quickly with a rather shocked look on his face!
I have no reason because I actually bought an M240 but it took me the best part of a year to convince myself to do so. I really wanted what the 240 can do ... but the price! That was some hurdle! A friend picked up my 240 last night ... well I handed it to him actually and when I told him what it had cost me he put it down again quite quickly with a rather shocked look on his face!
KM-25
Well-known
Too thick, too buggy, uber slow turn around on maintenance, battery dependent, no .85 option and I can't load Tmax 400 into it...
peterm1
Veteran
I can see you are still grappling with your digital Leica M demons Raid.
Well I have been down this path too. As you know from my earlier post on one of your threads I did buy one - an M8 but have to admit to being somewhat disappointed with it principally due to its technical limitations. So for me the question is, would I buy one again? To which I think the answer is almost certainly, "no". I say this very, very reluctantly as I dearly want to say yes.
I never the less have to fess up that I love handling my digital M. It feels so good in the hand. It looks so good. I frequently get comments from young women (go figure) admiring my camera - always young women (go figure-again).
But I simply do not get the joy from it I had hoped for and that I previously had gotten from film Ms. Somehow the film Ms had a sophistication that made them a pleasure not just to handle but to use. This had to do with things like the soft, smooth shutter button, the smooth quiet film wind on / shutter recocking, the large bright viewfinder and the quiet shutter sound when fired. My M8 lacks all of these things. It kind of feels a little - well, clunky by comparison.
I look at it this way. If you are going to buy an expensive European car you want it to behave like one. After all it gets you from point A to point B just like a Nissan, say. The extra cost is about the enjoyment you get from it (and maybe a little status appeal). A sophisticated interior, car doors that close with an almost silent click, not a clunk and clatter, a quiet interior when on the road etc are all part and parcel. And of course it needs to perform well enough at least to do the job.
Same with what at the end of the day is a very, very expensive European camera like a Leica M. It has to feel good to use. And my M8 is lacking something in this department. It is not horrible. It just lacks those seductive things that used to make me feel good about parting with so much money. This is expecially so knowing that digital cameras have a limited life. I cannot imagine my M8 being in working order in 40 years time as is so often the case with mechanical Ms. So unless you are paying a lot to get a lot of enjoyment, why bother. Cheers and good luck with your thought processes.
Well I have been down this path too. As you know from my earlier post on one of your threads I did buy one - an M8 but have to admit to being somewhat disappointed with it principally due to its technical limitations. So for me the question is, would I buy one again? To which I think the answer is almost certainly, "no". I say this very, very reluctantly as I dearly want to say yes.
I never the less have to fess up that I love handling my digital M. It feels so good in the hand. It looks so good. I frequently get comments from young women (go figure) admiring my camera - always young women (go figure-again).
But I simply do not get the joy from it I had hoped for and that I previously had gotten from film Ms. Somehow the film Ms had a sophistication that made them a pleasure not just to handle but to use. This had to do with things like the soft, smooth shutter button, the smooth quiet film wind on / shutter recocking, the large bright viewfinder and the quiet shutter sound when fired. My M8 lacks all of these things. It kind of feels a little - well, clunky by comparison.
I look at it this way. If you are going to buy an expensive European car you want it to behave like one. After all it gets you from point A to point B just like a Nissan, say. The extra cost is about the enjoyment you get from it (and maybe a little status appeal). A sophisticated interior, car doors that close with an almost silent click, not a clunk and clatter, a quiet interior when on the road etc are all part and parcel. And of course it needs to perform well enough at least to do the job.
Same with what at the end of the day is a very, very expensive European camera like a Leica M. It has to feel good to use. And my M8 is lacking something in this department. It is not horrible. It just lacks those seductive things that used to make me feel good about parting with so much money. This is expecially so knowing that digital cameras have a limited life. I cannot imagine my M8 being in working order in 40 years time as is so often the case with mechanical Ms. So unless you are paying a lot to get a lot of enjoyment, why bother. Cheers and good luck with your thought processes.
rscheffler
Well-known
Sometimes the journey is more enjoyable (or important) than the destination.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
'Daveleo', Did I hear 'FIRE'.... :angel:
Colin Corneau
Colin Corneau
They are great cameras, but frankly Fuji and to an increasing extent Sony are kicking the crap out of them on the digital rangefinder market. Why pay a premium for a camera that is equalled or often bested by cheaper options?
The problem with digital cameras is that you have to look at them like computers now, as much as cameras -- obsolete in a matter of a few years. To pay such a premium for a camera that is outperformed in a matter of months, sometimes, is just looney.
The problem with digital cameras is that you have to look at them like computers now, as much as cameras -- obsolete in a matter of a few years. To pay such a premium for a camera that is outperformed in a matter of months, sometimes, is just looney.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
I think its all about
What You can Afford
What 'feels' Good in the Hand /does the job
and what brings a Smile to your Eye
What You can Afford
What 'feels' Good in the Hand /does the job
and what brings a Smile to your Eye
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Why DID I decide to buy an digital Leica M?
Why DID I decide to buy an digital Leica M?
Interesting responses, burancap and helen.
It's easier for me to say why i DID buy a digital M...
In 2002, I sold my Ms (two bodies, five lenses) to buy a Hassy 903SWC. Partly because at that time it was unclear that making a digital M body was even possible, and partly because at that time I'd wanted to work with a Hassy SWC for 35 years and what I had in Leica gear was about the right value to turn over for the SWC. I did it.
Come 2011, much water under the bridge. I'd closed the photo business at the end of 2010 as being insufficiently profitable, took a three-month writing contract, and made twice as much money in the first three months of the year as I had in the previous three years. In late August, I was offered a full-time position on the staff and took it.
Meanwhile, in the course of that year, I'd acquired an M4-2 again, after 7 years of shooting exclusively with digital. I enjoyed using an M again that as the year went on I said to myself, "hmm, I'd like this same camera with a digital sensor." So when the 2011 tax return was filed and I realized I had over $10K coming back because of an accounting error that took out taxes for double what I was actually being paid, I realized I could do whatever I wanted and bought the M9.
I've had no regrets at all from buying it. It's been a completely reliable, excellent M that does exactly what I expected: it works very much the same as my M4-2, modulo the built-in meter and AutoISO, produces beautiful results with the same lenses, and makes the images I want without the additional work of having to process and scan film. It's a little heavier and thicker, otherwise, to me, it's the same "get out of my way and let me see" experience. Better in one respect: I don't have to manage loading/unloading film, or wind the lever between exposures.
I'll eventually update to the M-P or its successor; the typ 240 series model is even more responsive and addresses a couple of quirks of the M9. But I'm in no rush.
I like using the M9 in the same way and for the same reasons that I like using the M4-2.
G
Why DID I decide to buy an digital Leica M?
Interesting responses, burancap and helen.
It's easier for me to say why i DID buy a digital M...
In 2002, I sold my Ms (two bodies, five lenses) to buy a Hassy 903SWC. Partly because at that time it was unclear that making a digital M body was even possible, and partly because at that time I'd wanted to work with a Hassy SWC for 35 years and what I had in Leica gear was about the right value to turn over for the SWC. I did it.
Come 2011, much water under the bridge. I'd closed the photo business at the end of 2010 as being insufficiently profitable, took a three-month writing contract, and made twice as much money in the first three months of the year as I had in the previous three years. In late August, I was offered a full-time position on the staff and took it.
Meanwhile, in the course of that year, I'd acquired an M4-2 again, after 7 years of shooting exclusively with digital. I enjoyed using an M again that as the year went on I said to myself, "hmm, I'd like this same camera with a digital sensor." So when the 2011 tax return was filed and I realized I had over $10K coming back because of an accounting error that took out taxes for double what I was actually being paid, I realized I could do whatever I wanted and bought the M9.
I've had no regrets at all from buying it. It's been a completely reliable, excellent M that does exactly what I expected: it works very much the same as my M4-2, modulo the built-in meter and AutoISO, produces beautiful results with the same lenses, and makes the images I want without the additional work of having to process and scan film. It's a little heavier and thicker, otherwise, to me, it's the same "get out of my way and let me see" experience. Better in one respect: I don't have to manage loading/unloading film, or wind the lever between exposures.
I'll eventually update to the M-P or its successor; the typ 240 series model is even more responsive and addresses a couple of quirks of the M9. But I'm in no rush.
I like using the M9 in the same way and for the same reasons that I like using the M4-2.
G
B-9
Devin Bro
I opted for an Epson RD-1s at half the price of a used M8.
Ive owned Fuji Xpro, Nikon D700, Canon 1Ds MKII (1Dmkii), and my favorite Fuji X100.
I must be ignorant, but I like the Epson best, mostly for it's handling.
I shoot film, less and less.
But I still DO shoot film.
I've also never had the appropriate funds to buy a Leica digital M.
Considering my house only cost me a small amount more than a used M9, I doubt I will ever own one.
Tmax is still cheaper to buy, and develope at home with minimal immidiate investment.
I can do 20-100$ a month for chemistry, I couldn't imagine 5k$ in one instant.
But that's the beauty of Rangefinders, you can spend as much or as little as youde like. Especially if you have a bit of mechanical savvy.
Ive owned Fuji Xpro, Nikon D700, Canon 1Ds MKII (1Dmkii), and my favorite Fuji X100.
I must be ignorant, but I like the Epson best, mostly for it's handling.
I shoot film, less and less.
But I still DO shoot film.
I've also never had the appropriate funds to buy a Leica digital M.
Considering my house only cost me a small amount more than a used M9, I doubt I will ever own one.
Tmax is still cheaper to buy, and develope at home with minimal immidiate investment.
I can do 20-100$ a month for chemistry, I couldn't imagine 5k$ in one instant.
But that's the beauty of Rangefinders, you can spend as much or as little as youde like. Especially if you have a bit of mechanical savvy.
I'm in the same boat as Helen and burancap, it seems.
Digital Ms just don't feel like Ms. And when I say 'Ms' I mean film Ms.
They are bigger/fatter/heavier/clunkier/louder. Everything that defined what a film M wasn't.
And frankly, there are a lot of *really great* digital offerings on the market that are a lot smaller/thinner/lighter/refined/quieter...that have equivalent or better IQ, that cost less (with glass) than the depreciation alone of a digital M240 body-only.
Oh, and AF.
And I like to shoot film.
Digital Ms just don't feel like Ms. And when I say 'Ms' I mean film Ms.
They are bigger/fatter/heavier/clunkier/louder. Everything that defined what a film M wasn't.
And frankly, there are a lot of *really great* digital offerings on the market that are a lot smaller/thinner/lighter/refined/quieter...that have equivalent or better IQ, that cost less (with glass) than the depreciation alone of a digital M240 body-only.
Oh, and AF.
And I like to shoot film.
Range-rover
Veteran
To my mind too expensive, plus it's just another digital camera now to put great
lenses on. I think their film cameras will alway's be tops. If you have a bunch of
lenses then it makes sense (Maybe) otherwise there other digital bodies that
are good if not better.
Range
lenses on. I think their film cameras will alway's be tops. If you have a bunch of
lenses then it makes sense (Maybe) otherwise there other digital bodies that
are good if not better.
Range
raid
Dad Photographer
I am accepting digital photography for what it is. I do not mentally compare it with film photography. These two types are like apples and oranges. Both are fruits, and similar, but they have different appeals. I can make Apfelpfannekuchen from apples, but I would not make Apfelsinepfannekuchen from oranges. Apple juice and orange juice have their places. In the end, both film photography and digital photography can be enjoyed if you just look at each the right way.
Confusing? Amusing?
Confusing? Amusing?
remphoto
Established
Some years ago, I bought a M8 demo body from an authorized dealer a few weeks before leaving on a major vacation. It arrived DOA and my only option was to return it to Leica for repair, which would have taken 4-6 weeks. Leica was totally unwilling to expedite the repair and so I returned it and got my money back. This lack of customer care soured me on owning their digital line and so stuck with Canon DSLR gear for digtal. A Fuji X100 now feels the void.
DwF
Well-known
M9 second time 'round
M9 second time 'round
I shot M cameras for 20 plus years when the M6 TTL hit the market. How upsetting it was to have a slightly larger M body on the TTL and even more outrageous was the shutter dial moving in the opposite direction as all other Leica Ms.
When the M8 came out, it took some time for me to adjust but when I found a demo and bought it, I came to love the camera. Same with M9 but it won't happen with the 240 for me.
I have been considering another M9. I just want to hear from Leica that they will actually maintain an inventory of sensors that will not delaminate. Even off warranty, if they were to offer a trade up for a 240 (not that they would) it would not interest me.
I miss my M9! Wonderful camera, but a bit of an Alpha Romeo.
M9 second time 'round
I shot M cameras for 20 plus years when the M6 TTL hit the market. How upsetting it was to have a slightly larger M body on the TTL and even more outrageous was the shutter dial moving in the opposite direction as all other Leica Ms.
When the M8 came out, it took some time for me to adjust but when I found a demo and bought it, I came to love the camera. Same with M9 but it won't happen with the 240 for me.
I have been considering another M9. I just want to hear from Leica that they will actually maintain an inventory of sensors that will not delaminate. Even off warranty, if they were to offer a trade up for a 240 (not that they would) it would not interest me.
I miss my M9! Wonderful camera, but a bit of an Alpha Romeo.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I'm enjoying film era MF RF glass on my M4-2 and FED-2 and modern high end AF glass on Canon DSLRs.
Any digital RF Leica is very nice camera, but unpractical for me.
Can't afford any new digital Leica RF to use it only for my own pleasure (street) and MF old style capabilities for family photography.
If I sell one of my DSLR lens I could buy M8 right away. But it is unsupported archaic cropper.
If I sell three of my DSLR lens, I could by M9. Which is nothing better in terms of IQ comparing to my FF DSLR.
Personally, for digital images I need convenience of DSLR's zero lag and ultra-fast AF.
Buying slightly used FF DSLR these days is on pair with service charges to keep used Leica alive, it seems.
Also any digital B/W (any Leica included) isn't on pair with film B/W for my personal taste.
Any digital RF Leica is very nice camera, but unpractical for me.
Can't afford any new digital Leica RF to use it only for my own pleasure (street) and MF old style capabilities for family photography.
If I sell one of my DSLR lens I could buy M8 right away. But it is unsupported archaic cropper.
If I sell three of my DSLR lens, I could by M9. Which is nothing better in terms of IQ comparing to my FF DSLR.
Personally, for digital images I need convenience of DSLR's zero lag and ultra-fast AF.
Buying slightly used FF DSLR these days is on pair with service charges to keep used Leica alive, it seems.
Also any digital B/W (any Leica included) isn't on pair with film B/W for my personal taste.