Why do people complain...

[bmattock]

I already said that *I* wasn't complaining... technology is great, I have DSLR... and a scanner for my A/D conversions.

🙂

I do the same, which apparently confuses and confounds the anti-digital film-snobbery crew. I shoot and process my own B&W and scan the results. I shoot digital. I take my time and shoot all manual settings on both, or I activate auto-everything and hammer away - depending on a variety of factors, including what I feel like doing at that particular moment.

The haters have a problem with this. If I like digital, I must therefore hate film. If I use film, I must therefore agree with them that digital sucks.

How dare I think for myself and use whatever I prefer in whatever manner I choose!

 

[gb hill]

Not exactly .... "Chimping" is the practice of looking at every image right after you shoot it. The term comes from giving 1000 chimpanzees 1000 Point and Shoot digital cameras. Without fail, every one of the 1000 chimpanzees, upon learning how to use the cameras on A or P, consistently looked at every picture after pressing the shutter. So, looking at every picture upon capture puts you in the company of the 1000 "Chimp" test subjects.

Interestingly, if you place human subjects who use digital cameras in the same room with the 1000 similarly equipped chimpanzees, it soon becomes impossible to tell the humans from the chimps. The telltale is that the chimps are usually the ones that are dressed and groomed better. The chimps also know the proper use of eating utensils.

That's "chimping".

There is also the practice of purchasing each new iteration of digital camera that comes to market in the hope that it will improve one's photography.

Those people are called "chumps".

Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't sure what chimping is. Makes good sense. LOL about the chumps. That's a classic!

 

[tbarker13]

I guess I worry about it because I do like to shoot a lot when i've found a particular location/project that I'm really enjoying.
My film camera is all manual so I can shoot until I decide to stop, or until I run out of film.
With a digital camera, it may not be up to me to decide when I have to stop.

I think it's neat that some photogs go out and shoot very deliberately, keeping frames to a minimum. Neat, but not for me.
I got into the hobby through a photojournalism degree. I learned a way of shooting that works for me.
The world of photography is full of great images taken by photogs who have used both approaches. Wasn't it Winogrand who left behind (when he died) more than 2,000 unprocessed rolls of film and tens of thousands of unedited images?

 

[bmattock]

With a digital camera, it may not be up to me to decide when I have to stop.

Really. Your camera controls you? Amazing.

I think it's neat that some photogs go out and shoot very deliberately, keeping frames to a minimum. Neat, but not for me.

I agree, but I also think it is neat that photographers do what makes them happiest and don't worry about what other photographers do to make themselves happy.

I got into the hobby through a photojournalism degree. I learned a way of shooting that works for me.
The world of photography is full of great images taken by photogs who have used both approaches. Wasn't it Winogrand who left behind (when he died) more than 2,000 unprocessed rolls of film and tens of thousands of unedited images?

I've heard it was a lot more than that.

But if he had listened to the experts on RFF, he'd have been told that he 'shoots too much' and should cut down a bit.

If he had dared to shoot digital (and it had been available in his day with the quality it has today), he'd have been dismissed as a dilettante, a mere dabbler, not to be confused with a Real Photographer (tm).

I like your approach - use what works for you. That's why I switch back and forth - it all works for me in one way or another, depending on circumstances. Specialization is for insects.

 

[Silva Lining]

Specialization is for insects.

And Finches , according to Darwin 😀

 

[Al Kaplan]

I need to get in the darkroom and do some developing and printing. There are about 2 dozen rolls to develop, at least twice that needing contact sheets, and a couple of pages of notebook paper listing negatives to print. Plus tha half shot rolls in five cameras! Just the thought of it is a turn-off. It surely is a good incentive to shoot less.

 

[tbarker13]

Really. Your camera controls you? Amazing.

Well, if my camera has no juice, then it sure does.😀

 

[bmattock]

Well, if my camera has no juice, then it sure does.😀

See, here's the part that everyone seems to have trouble understanding in these 'wars'.

First, I bring spare batteries. Mainly because I'm not an idiot, which I am forced to presume anyone who claims to be flat out of luck if they run out of batteries is.

I hate to point fingers or make outlandish claims, but here is a thought - if one knows one is going to be shooting a lot of photos and one fails to bring enough (batteries, film, recording media, etc) then, yes, one is a low-grade, blithering, idiot and pointing the finger of blame at the item one was too stupid to remember just makes one look even more pathetic.

Imagine if I claimed that cars were stupid because they run out of gasoline. The correct response to such a claim would be, "Fill the tank, zipperhead."

Second, spare AA batteries, which I try to make sure my cameras take, are available at far more drugstores than color print film these days. So again, not sure what kind of booger-eatin' morons cannot find AA batteries at a drugstore. "The camera dies and you can't get more batteries, so digital cameras are dumb," they cry. Apparently because they prefer wooden torches to flashlights - you just can't buy batteries, so flashlights are dumb too. I suppose they leave their cars abandoned by the side of the road when the lead-acid battery goes out after six or seven years, too.

Third, I also shoot film. Duh. Just because I pack a digital camera does not mean I don't have room for a film camera and a couple rolls of film. Imagine that, film boys. I can do both. I know it scares you, but try to calm down and imagine it.

So I guess I just don't have these awful problems that the film baboons seem to think anyone who shoots digital is doomed to.

 

[Jason808]

an EL-E3 battery and another card takes up less space in my bag (or in a ziploc bag in my pocket) than two rolls of film. I get about 800 shots out of my D80 or about 1500 out of my D70. When I first started shooting digital I realized my problems were memory, not battery. I run out of card space well before I run out of battery. I've shot sports and events and NEVER was concerned about running out of power. If I'm preparing for some shoot in the middle of nowhere and I don't have spares, or the proper equipment for such a shoot then I've either planned poorly or had a significant disaster, which may likely be a bigger deal than just not being able to shoot pictures. If I have a grip attached, I can get cards and batteries at darn near anywhere I shoot in the 'States. Even the small town drug/grocery store has cards and AA's.

These old wives' tales just don't hold water anymore unless you fail to prepare or are caught in a situation you didn't plan to be in in the first place. In that case, it's merely luck, not a fault of the technology.

 

[40oz]

I hate to be the voice of reason here, but I can look at the counter and see how many shots I have left on a roll of film, but there isn't a battery meter that can accurately predict how many shots are left.

Get back to me when you find a digital camera that doesn't need a battery at all. Until then, people are going to have good reason to gripe that their camera depends on a battery. Pretending that there is no issue is a fine self-deception, but understand that not everyone lies to themselves to justify purchases. That doesn't make them stupid - it's the other way around, IMHO.

 

[antiquark]

I've never complained about batteries, but it's disingenuous to say that you can walk into a corner store and buy batteries, or that it's trivial to carry spares.

AFAIK, every dSLR uses a specific battery pack. I have never walked into a corner store and seen a Nikon EN-EL9 battery sitting on the shelf.

And say I planned far in advance for a 20 day trip in the jungle (for example), and calculate that I'd need 10 batteries. The EN-EL9 goes for $40: does that mean I have to spend $400 on batteries? In the old days a pair of watch batteries ($10?) would last for months. (And the cost of a battery for a Nikon D3 would be much greater.)

In the old days batteries were something you could basically forget. Today, it's as important as film was back then. Maybe it's just a shell game, film's out of the picture now, but now we have to deal with batteries.

 

[splitimageview]

I remember in the old days (at least the old days for me, 30+ years ago) when the Herbert Kepplers of the world complained about how the newfangled cameras of the time would not operate without batteries, and how it would be such a tragedy if a shot were missed when due to untimely battery death.

If I could afford to go into the jungle for 20 days I could probably afford plenty of batteries or even a support team that would carry a generator to power the charger to charge the batteries. 🙂

 

[Al Kaplan]

My meters (a pair of Weston Master V's) don't need batteries either.

 

[gb hill]

And yes, I have many thousands of photos in Flickr. I have my reasons for that.

Your missing the point entirely. I know people personally that will download their whole memory card on flickr. They have 8 photos in a row of the same thing. I have friends who shoot digital only speak of how crazy this is. These are the one's I'm talking about. I couldn't care less how many photos you post on flickr.

 

[gb hill]

I'll say this for digital. At least you wont ever have to worry about developing a roll of film only to find the whole roll unexposed. This happened to me yesterday with a roll of T-Max I shot in downtown Winston Salem. Now I have to figure what happened to my Yashica. Now that was something to complain about.

 

[climbing_vine]

I've never complained about batteries, but it's disingenuous to say that you can walk into a corner store and buy batteries, or that it's trivial to carry spares.

AFAIK, every dSLR uses a specific battery pack. I have never walked into a corner store and seen a Nikon EN-EL9 battery sitting on the shelf.

Walgreens and Snyeder's, among others, carry some of the most common ones (usually Energizer-branded). Not to mention places like Proex and Ritz or Best Buy or Target or Wal-Mart, which are everywhere.

And say I planned far in advance for a 20 day trip in the jungle (for example), and calculate that I'd need 10 batteries. The EN-EL9 goes for $40: does that mean I have to spend $400 on batteries? In the old days a pair of watch batteries ($10?) would last for months. (And the cost of a battery for a Nikon D3 would be much greater.)

Totally, utterly ridiculous and disningenuous. As if you wouldn't have to spend far more than that on film for an equivalent number of shots.... and as if you wouldn't have generator capability.

I shoot a lot more film than digital, but this battery stuff is, as Bill put so fine a point on, just ****ing stupid. Each of those $40 batteries and a $10 1GB memory card to go with it gets you as many shots as $75 - $150 worth of film, depending on what you're shooting. It's cheaper and far less bulky, so frankly, this is again nothing but a big ****ing joke.

Now, you can legitimately talk about a reliance on camera electronics in very particular corner cases... but that's why you carry a mechanical backup. And, frankly again, a mechanical camera is a lot more likely to develope a problem (or give you blank rolls from now until kingdom come) than one that is electronic. 😛. And that's a completely different discussion.

 

[antiquark]

Walgreens and Snyeder's, among others, carry some of the most common ones (usually Energizer-branded). Not to mention places like Proex and Ritz or Best Buy or Target or Wal-Mart, which are everywhere.

This may come as a shock to you, but not every place on earth is littered with Walmarts, Targets, etc.

and as if you wouldn't have generator capability.

Tell that to this guy:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raul/440339137/in/set-75598/

To quote:
"[It's] hard to properly convey the feeling you get after you've been walking in the mountains for days, often totally alone."

Maybe he was feeling exhausted from lugging his generator. 🙂

Actually the photographer, Raul Gutierrez, likes to use a manual Nikon with film for his far flung travels. Check out his photostream, some really great stuff, esp. from Asia.

 

[tbarker13]

See, here's the part that everyone seems to have trouble understanding in these 'wars'.

First, I bring spare batteries. Mainly because I'm not an idiot, which I am forced to presume anyone who claims to be flat out of luck if they run out of batteries is.

I hate to point fingers or make outlandish claims, but here is a thought - if one knows one is going to be shooting a lot of photos and one fails to bring enough (batteries, film, recording media, etc) then, yes, one is a low-grade, blithering, idiot and pointing the finger of blame at the item one was too stupid to remember just makes one look even more pathetic.

Imagine if I claimed that cars were stupid because they run out of gasoline. The correct response to such a claim would be, "Fill the tank, zipperhead."

Second, spare AA batteries, which I try to make sure my cameras take, are available at far more drugstores than color print film these days. So again, not sure what kind of booger-eatin' morons cannot find AA batteries at a drugstore. "The camera dies and you can't get more batteries, so digital cameras are dumb," they cry. Apparently because they prefer wooden torches to flashlights - you just can't buy batteries, so flashlights are dumb too. I suppose they leave their cars abandoned by the side of the road when the lead-acid battery goes out after six or seven years, too.

Third, I also shoot film. Duh. Just because I pack a digital camera does not mean I don't have room for a film camera and a couple rolls of film. Imagine that, film boys. I can do both. I know it scares you, but try to calm down and imagine it.

So I guess I just don't have these awful problems that the film baboons seem to think anyone who shoots digital is doomed to.

Yeah, my M8 loves it when I shove AA batteries inside it.
Frankly, I don't get the "war" comment. Is there really someone out there who's getting worked up over this?

I do enjoy your rather simplistic view: "If you run out of something you need, you are an idiot."
But there is such a thing in life as "the unexpected." Now maybe you carry every piece of gear you own at all times. I don't. I carry what I think I will need, plus a little extra. And 99 percent of the time, that's more than enough.

The reality for me is this: My M8 is always going to be more vulnerable than my M4. It's just easier to find a roll of film (especially if you are not picky about the type) than it is to find a fresh battery for an M8.
Not a complaint. Just a fact that I deal with.

 

[climbing_vine]

This may come as a shock to you, but not every place on earth is littered with Walmarts, Targets, etc.

The point is, if you can find a place to get film, the chances that you truly can't find a place to either buy or recharge a battery is essentially zero. Zero. I'm not sure how anyone can seriously debate this.

Actually the photographer, Raul Gutierrez, likes to use a manual Nikon with film for his far flung travels. Check out his photostream, some really great stuff, esp. from Asia.

That's fine. It's his preference. It would be mine too. But this argument-from-authority attempt doesn't change the fact that spare batteries and memory cards are cheaper, smaller, lighter, and less susceptible to "problems" than film. Them's the facts, jack.

 

[Tuolumne]

I don't understand these references to the hypothetical trek across nowhere. How many digital camera owners will ever take such a trek? How many people who have posted here will ever take such a trek? Yes, you can concoct hypothetical situations where one might be legitimately concerned about digital camera batteries, but they are fanciful hypotheses. The complaint about digital camera batteries is a common one here. How many of the worriers are actually ever going to trek across nowhere? The concern seems overblown to the point of just being a convenient reason to state why one doesn't like digital. But instead of just saying "I don't like digital", it seems necessary to rationalize the dislike with a reason that just doesn't hold water.

/T