why do you care...

[varjag]

And german 1930's engineering is far superior to any quality product put out today...yes, you buy cheap and you get cheap, but a quality product like the ZI or CV is equally as good as any leica - without the branding and marketing that most people here seem to be against.

This is a territory of conjectures so far. Give the cameras a decade or two and see how they fare. What can be told right now though, is that there are some design and manufacturing shortcuts taken in Bessa bodies compared to Leica. They are good cameras for enthusiast, Cosina contributed a lot to resurgence of rangefinders, and many of their lenses are top rate, but saying the bodies are "equally as good" sounds like inappropriate politesse.

Can CV build bodies just as beautifully designed as Solms if price was not the issue? Maybe; maybe not. Fact is they don't so far.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I've never had a problem that Le Creuset's own-brand cleaner couldn't fix. It's about £3 for 250ml and a bottle seems to last forever.

Intruiged by finding out you've written cookery books as well as the photography books, I had a glance at amazon. Are the barbecuing and sushi books yours, as well as the obvious book on starters that has Frances' name on the cover?

Cheers
Jamie

Dear Jamie,

Believe it or not, I didn't know they made an own-brand cleaner! I'll have to look for it. Thanks.

The cook-books are Starters, Sushi, Mexican and Barbecue. Sushi relied heavily on our itamae (sushi chef) in California, whose sole reward for all the help was having his name on the cover, and some of the recipes in Mexican came from a $500 donation to Our Lady of Guadalupe in Guadalupe, CA; the parish priest was a friend, and asked his parishioners for recipes...

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Roger Hicks]

They are good cameras for enthusiast, Cosina contributed a lot to resurgence of rangefinders, and many of their lenses are top rate, but saying the bodies are "equally as good" sounds like inappropriate politesse.

Seconded. Even Kobayashi-san doesn't say that. Nor do the people at Zeiss pretend that the ZI is in quite the same league as Leica.

Cheers,

R.

 

[wgerrard]

I've never had a problem that Le Creuset's own-brand cleaner couldn't fix. It's about £3 for 250ml and a bottle seems to last forever.
Jamie

I've used that, too, although I have to order it online for about $10 a bottle. I found it reasonably effective, but not nearly as much as a non-abrasive like Barkeeper's Friend on a good stainless steel pan. In any case, it did not work at all for me on burned on food.

I suspect using a gas versus an electric stove makes a difference. The points at which an electric burner is in direct contact with a pan are likely locations for overheating. Of course, it wouldn't be a problem if I didn't boost the heat too much, too quickly.

On the general quality theme: I buy quality when the item is important to me and when I can afford it. Not so much because of the long-term financial angle, but simply because I hate to shop. If something lasts longer, that means fewer trips to the stores to replace it.

Like most of us, I'm aware of the cash I've sunk in digital products, only to replace them in a few years. But, truth is, I've had very few digital toys break over the years (monitors excepted). I replace them because they've fallen behind the capabilities race and because I just want something new.

 

[Sparrow]

Le Creuset for stews and casseroles, 35mm for snapshots (RF 12-75mm SLR 85-200mm), cast iron for grilling, black wrote iron for frying, MF for portraits, Cuprinox for sautés and sauces, stainless steel for boiling, and LF for art and landscape if I could be bothered; that about covers it.

Oh almost forgot anodised aluminium for scrambled eggs and digital for the wife’s handbag 😀

 

[varjag]

Sitemistic, yes, life is hard and then you die 🙂

I wasn't tackling the social side of it though, merely a remark that there is more in Leica M than hot air and marketing hype.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Buy them and use them up.

I accept that you're writing about only one product, but I've never seen a more succinct summary of the reason why the ecological movement exists.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Krosya]

Reason I buy older cameras - I really like them. They feel good to me. I do like some of the modern cameras too. But to me - there is something special about using a camera that is as much as 2-3 times older than me. I enjoy other older mechanical things too. Like watches. And even older appliances - talk to a good stove/fridge/washing machine repairman - he'd tell you - all modern things are not made like they used to. They may have fancy features, but they break waaay too much. While older ones just keep going with minor service.
But that's besides the point. Out of all my cameras, I personally prefer my Weltas from around 1936-7. They don't deliver results as good as my Leica or Hexar, yet they just feel magical to me. Inspire me more. Whenever I feel tempted by some new toy, I just think of my grandfather, who used an old Barnack all his life and got great results. He loved his camera and it lasted him all his life from the day he bought it. Now I have it. It's a great feeling to connect to these things. I guess Kevin M said it right - it's all about love.
Yes, other things influence our descision to use and have those old cameras, but I think it's love that keeps us coming back to them. I hope to leave these cameras to my children if not to use, - as a momento, that is fully capable to produce a photo. Unfortunately, none of the modern cameras really make me feel the same.

 

[Al Patterson]

I accept that you're writing about only one product, but I've never seen a more succinct summary of the reason why the ecological movement exists.

Cheers,

R.

Sure, but to your point, so many things get thrown away long before they are "used up".

 

[Roger Hicks]

Sure, but to your point, so many things get thrown away long before they are "used up".

Dear Al,

Exactly. That was my point, really. Why are they thrown away? Sure, some are hopelessly outdated, and something vastly better is available, at a price so low it's hard to resist. But that's not really so common outside electronics, and even then, people often 'upgrade' needlessly.

Think of fitted kitchens, new dinner services, mobile 'phones, shoes. And, above all, clothes.

Cheers,

R.

 

[aizan]

here's something i don't get: non-stick le creuset pans.

nice to see some people using double edge razors. i use a merkur, too. going through my first puck of almond trumper's, which is pretty nice.

i still haven't gotten a large sensor digital camera because they haven't made the ones i want. at the rate canon and nikon are moving, scary thing is that i might end up getting a dreaded leica r body for my slr.

 

[Ororaro]

Altough well built, the R4 and R6 just break suddenly and are unrepearable. That's why, I guess, it is extremely important for a luxury company to sell a product that won't fail (or at least sell the idea).

 

[mike goldberg]

Those were the days, my friend...

Those were the days, my friend...

I love owning the classic, vintage gear in the Thumbnails below; yes, these are digital captures 🙄

 

[hou baloo]

I use the old stuff partly in celebration of high quality design. My daily writers are Parker Duofold fountain pens from the late 1920s and early 1930s, and the gold points write smoother even than my modern Parkers.

I drive a 1971 Datsun 240z, which is in prima mechanical condition. Our neighborhood got flooded a few years ago, and the cars also. The water took out over $1000 of electronics in the Taurus, but I just snapped out the floor carpets on the Z, popped the rubber drain grommets in the floorboard, and left the doors open for a couple of days to dry it out.

Does new stuff have attraction? Certainly. Does it add functionality? Yes, but less conclusively than is sometimes argued. Do I find satisfaction in using an object that has outlived its maker? You bet!

 

[nikon_sam]

hou baloo,

I had a 1976 280Z that was also in great condition and whenever I think about the day I traded it in I could just kick myself...I want that car back...

 

[Sam R]

I agree with Roger; buying the best you can afford usually lead to greater overall satisfation. And I not saying Ralp Lauren shirts (that don't last) Buying a big name is not quality. Buying engineering and usability is.

 

[mike goldberg]

There are products with reputations for known quality. If I had the bread for a new car, it would probably be the Volvo S40. Many taxis here in Israel were Mercedes 220's... until they got too expensive to maintain, with all the electronics. Now the taxi drivers favor the Skoda Octavia made in the Czech Republic. These are diesel, and can go for 300,000 km and beyond with regular service.

It seems that many of us favor Leicas because of build quality as well as the name.

 

[Sam R]

He was smart...didn't drive a M8

 

[Roger Hicks]

Tell that to the poor guy in another thread who only got to take four frames with his new, defective M8 and 1.5 months later still has no M8 to shoot. Paying for "quality" doesn't necessarily buy you quality products or service.

And your point is?

Nothing's perfect.

One friend of mine had a wrecked engine in a new Rolls Royce as a result of swarf in the oilways. The very first Leica lens I ever bought new was defective (sticking focusing mount) and had to be replaced under guarantee -- which was done by return of post. Anyone who waits 6 weeks to have a new product replaced is being insufficiently assertive.

But I don't judge all Rolls Royces by my chum's, or all Leicas by the occasional problem. Because generally, you DO get what you pay for. Surprise, surprise. And Leicas have a reputation for excellence because mostly, they're excellent.

Cheers,

R.