Why doesn't Leica just remake the M2?

[Franklin Pangborn]

They already supply an expensive product to a small niche market, and they can barely sell any of those.

The cost of producing their glossy printed brochures and advertising matter probably exceeds their profits.

What I'm talking about is saving the film M. Beyond providing an expensive product to a small niche market, I suppose, that's probably unrealistic anyway.

 

[splitimageview]

If they are only selling 100/month, there are already enough film Ms that exist, they don't need to produce more.

How much lower would the price need to be for a new M, for them to sell 1000 or 2000/month?

 

[abenner]

Anyone who wants an M2 can easily find one now, for far less than Leica could build one.

That could be said for the M7 and MP as well, which Leica continues to make and ask $4000 for.

And the people who knew how to carefully construct them are probably all dead.

I think this is untrue. Watch the video of the M7 being made. Clearly the people who make the M7 and MP could make the M2.

 

[Franklin Pangborn]

I think this is untrue. Watch the video of the M7 being made. Clearly the people who make the M7 and MP could make the M2.

The people in the videos are screwing together a few prefabricatd modules made elsewhere so they can claim the camera is "Made in Germany".

If you ever opened up an M7 and compared it to an M3, the M7 is far more poorly constructed.

 

[Tuolumne]

If you want an M2, just buy an MP and leave the battery out so the meter doesn't work. I don't get this obsession with an M2.

/T

 

[abenner]

How much lower would the price need to be for a new M, for them to sell 1000 or 2000/month?

Robert, I guess that's the critical question. If they built a cheaper model (which they never will of course) it would first and foremost still have to be an M through and through.

Whatever the number is, it's much lower than what they sell stuff for now. I've at one point or another owned almost every regular model they've made, and I've never thought of buying a new one. Of course I don't want a meter, but even if I did, they've priced me out.

 

[abenner]

If you want an M2, just buy an MP and leave the battery out so the meter doesn't work. I don't get this obsession with an M2.

/T

I used the M2 as the example because of it's simplicity and it's nostalgia factor. That was the point of the M2 when it was introduced, it was simpler than the M3. Personally, I don't share the obsession for the M2 with many here. I've owned an M2 and didn't think it was any better than than the M4-P or M4-2 I had.

I like your point about the MP though. I did that with the first MP I owned in fact. When I got comfortable enough without the meter, I sold the MP and went to a vintage M, and now I've finally settled down with an MP classic, which is basically an MP without the meter. I think it's perfect.

 

[Franklin Pangborn]

With a few more "customers" like you, they might as well put the last few nails in the coffin.

So you recommend they build an obsolete camera to philosophically please those people who have never bought a new Leica and never will?

"Undecided"??

Robert, I guess that's the critical question. If they built a cheaper model (which they never will of course) it would first and foremost still have to be an M through and through.

Whatever the number is, it's much lower than what they sell stuff for now. I've at one point or another owned almost every regular model they've made, and I've never thought of buying a new one. Of course I don't want a meter, but even if I did, they've priced me out.

 

[marke]

There aren't many people these days that want a manual focus, rangefinder camera. There are even less people that want a meterless camera. One reason the M2/3 still sells is because they are classics.

 

[LeicaTom]

Didn`t they make a MP Classic, which was about the closest thing to the M2 since the M2?

Leica also made the M6J which looked just like an M3 cept had the crazy canted M4 style rewind knob.

Leica could make a M3 or a M2 tribute camera very easily, just I don`t think that they think it`s worth the extra effort, we have to wait another 50 years, then they will think it will be kool to do,
(while look at these UR-Leica replica`s being sold again!)
too, bad they just don`t grab the bull by the horns and make a M tribute camera and be done with it.....and make like 10,000 of them so everyone can get a piece of the action!!!!!

Hmmm when`s the M3 birthday??? ~ Ahhh ok 2014, why don`t they make a ALL CHROME M3 with a New Summilux f1.4/50 asph lens in oldtimer clothes, heck by then Leica`s will be $6,500 for a new one............UGHHHH!!!!! well that`s even if the factory is still around by then, LOL!!!! ~ dammm M2 lovers have to wait till 2018 for their`s 😉
*60 YEARS M LEICA ETC.*

Tom

ps: Is`nt Leica moving BACK to WETZLAR soon???????

They need to make another SPECIAL EDITION M camera, see that`s a reason!!!! 😀

 

[maddoc]

Last year (if I remember correctly) they donated 20 M4-P / M4-2 (?) plus lenses to some educational institution. These cameras were build from spare parts, already available.

I think re-building the M4-P and offering it a price of ~ $1300 to $1600 would be a better alternative. The M4-P was already designed to be assembled from machined steel-parts like the actual cameras, M7 and MP. The M2 on the other hand was made from brass-parts, selected by hand to fit properly.

 

[marke]

LeicaTom, you're a hoot! 🙂

Seriously, it made more sense for Leica to come out with those earlier anniversary/commemorative editions because film cameras were still pretty safe in the market. Trying to release a new <$4,000 35mm film camera now is just looking for trouble. 😱

 

[david.elliott]

Trying to release a new <$4,000 35mm film camera now is just looking for trouble. 😱

If I were going to buy a $4000 camera, I would rather it were film than digital.

The digital would be obsoleted a few years down the line by new technology. The film camera would not be.

 

[abenner]

With a few more "customers" like you, they might as well put the last few nails in the coffin.

Franklin - I think the new M cameras are overpriced and I don't want a meter. I've purchased new Leica lenses, which I think are also overpriced but I can justify it since the glass can be used on whatever body I have and the pricing isn't as discrepant when compared to the new vs. used body numbers.

When I did buy an MP I bought it from a licensed dealer who had the new MP for sale at $3900 and a "used" sample which I could not tell from the new one, and it was $1900. Would you have done differently?

So you recommend they build an obsolete camera to philosophically please those people who have never bought a new Leica and never will?

My recommendation is they build a cheaper camera. The way I think they could do that easiest is to build a meterless camera, for which there clearly is a market for, if the price is right.

"Undecided"??

The tag "undecided" under my username should probably be updated, since it referred to the fact that I couldn't seem to decide which M I liked best, and I bought and sold a number of them over a few year period. Perhaps I should update it. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[abenner]

Didn`t they make a MP Classic, which was about the closest thing to the M2 since the M2?

They did Tom. It's the only M I own now and I love it. It too was overpriced as a special edition, but one day I came across an ad from a nice guy who wanted to buy the set, with the special black paint 50/2 in the style of the rigid Summicron, just so he could have the lens, and he offered me a good deal on the camera.

Hmmm when`s the M3 birthday??? ~ Ahhh ok 2014, why don`t they make a ALL CHROME M3 with a New Summilux f1.4/50 asph lens in oldtimer clothes, heck by then Leica`s will be $6,500 for a new one

What you describe sounds a lot like the MP3 set, which of course isn't $6500 but rather about $8000, if you can find one.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

abenner, send a note to Leica and find out. I'm sure they have a reason. You'll probably disagree with them but then, you can always argue your way into getting them to make your own personal M2.

Have fun! 🙂

 

[abenner]

Last year (if I remember correctly) they donated 20 M4-P / M4-2 (?) plus lenses to some educational institution. These cameras were build from spare parts, already available.

I think re-building the M4-P and offering it a price of ~ $1300 to $1600 would be a better alternative. The M4-P was already designed to be assembled from machined steel-parts like the actual cameras, M7 and MP. The M2 on the other hand was made from brass-parts, selected by hand to fit properly.

Sounds like a plan! Build it cheaper, offer a few frameline set variations, and price it not too far above the Zeiss Ikon.

 

[abenner]

abenner, send a note to Leica and find out. I'm sure they have a reason. You'll probably disagree with them but then, you can always argue your way into getting them to make your own personal M2.

Have fun! 🙂

I think the reason why they wouldn't is obvious, it's that they're abandoning film cameras.

And it's not that I really want a new M2 so much, it's just that I think they could sell a few more cameras if they went vintage and found a way to make it and sell it cheaper.

But hey, I'm sure they're too busy painting M8's white to worry about what I or anyone else thinks about an obsolete film camera.

 

[rbiemer]

I don't think just re-issuing the M2 would get you a less expensive camera. They were expensive when new and inflation has taken its toll as well. Plus the manual labor involved in how the M2 was produced is very much more expensive.

And if Leica are only building 100 or 150 film cameras a month, they likely don't have the workers or production lines to build 1000 cameras a month. Which would mean that if they were to try this, they'd need to hire and train staff and build production facilities. Sort of sounds like the Nikon situation to me.

Consider the new "classic" Smith&Wesson revolvers being produced now--made as closely as Smith can to the methods used then--more expensive compared to the current production revolvers rather than less.
Rob

 

[Keith]

Actually mention of the Ikon above is a very relative point when wondering about Leica's reluctance to build a cheap M film body. I'm sure they've had a good look at the Ikon and it's amazing viewfinder and know damned well they would have trouble matching the Zeiss's attributes for anywhere near it's price ... unless they also had it manufactured in Asia ... which is what they should probably do come to think of it!