Why film?

[PKR]

Bill; This is way OT, but just remembered it. I thought I would pass it along, since you're reading this thread.

Long ago, in a piece in Modern, you talked about packing your gear/bag in a dog food bag when riding the subway in NYC. I've used variations on that theme many times after reading of your scheme. I was telling a PJ friend about it years back and he said.. yeah, I know about that trick Pierce pulls. He said, he puts his bag in a cardboard box in the back seat of his car and covers it with dirty diapers. He got some old clean ones from his kid, and a trip to the art supply store completed the look. He said, "No one has ever touched that box", or broken into his car for that matter. .Looking through the car window, you see a box of soiled diapers.

 

[Richard G]

I was wondering why the film/digital topic was still being discussed, but I forgot this is RFF and the thread has digressed... 😀

This thread will last a lot longer: film, and light meter threads always go for pages.

I've enjoyed this thread for the positives in it. Love Bill's link to The Online Photographer (TOP) on digital black and white, and especially Mike Johnston's (TOP) follow up to it the next day. Always more to learn.

 

[jsrockit]

Some might find this interesting..
Richard hurt his back and could no longer pack his 8x10 camera equipment. He got a digital camera and now does his own printing. He's the only photographer handled by The Fraenkel Gallery who works with digital cameras (when I last asked). I don't know about Pace - MacGill.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Misrach
.
https://fraenkelgallery.com/

I didn't know this. I've always loved his large format work. Do you know which project or book he has used digital for?

 

[Talus]

I use film for black and white and alternative processes, and use digital for color. Most of my work is film.

Same here, although I'm not a working photographer. I do volunteer as a photog at my church and that work is all digital. It just makes more sense. Otherwise I enjoy the shooting/processing process of film and do all my personal work on film for the time being. Film makes me slow down and think about what I'm doing. And I also love the anticipation of going through the negs. It's like Christmas every time.

 

[PKR]

I didn't know this. I've always loved his large format work. Do you know which project or book he has used digital for?

John; it was around, or a year or two before the Katrina Storm. Everything post that period is digital. I think many of his Katrina photos were done with a digital camera - maybe m 4/3 or something small. I think he uses a Phase One for most projects. He did one project recently with an iPhone camera. His bio surely covers this stuff in some detail. We used the same printer for some time. I think it was the printer who told me about his back injury.

From the Wiki link above:

"Returning to the same beach while on vacation in late 2011 with a new digital camera, he began working at the same location but with a different intent and mood: the artist says he was becoming “more comfortable with metaphysical questions,”[11] and the subjects of his 2011 images appear at play and in harmony with nature. The title of the series, On the Beach 2.0, alludes to the fact that the photographs are grounded in their technological moment in time – as do the individual titles, which refer to the date and exact minute of each shot.[22]"

From his Fraenkel bio:

"Recent projects mark departures from his work to date. In one series, he has experimented with new advances in digital capture and printing, foregrounding the negative as an end in itself and digitally creating images with astonishing detail and color spectrum. In another, he built a powerful narrative out of images of graffiti produced in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, made with a 4-megapixel pocket camera. In fall 2012, in collaboration with landscape architect Kate Orff, Misrach launched a major book and exhibition entitled Petrochemical America, which addresses the health and environmental issues associated with our dependency on oil."

Some stuff in this piece:
https://photographyforagreenerplanet.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/questions-and-answers-richard-misrach/

From the above: "So far the omnipresence of imagery on the internet hasn’t had a huge impact on me. However, digital production has completely changed the way I work and think about photography. I haven’t shot film in almost two years and am now making all of my own prints again (haven’t done that since the 1970’s). Some prints are as large as 10×13 feet!"

The interview was in 2009, so, that puts the change to digital in 2007. Much earlier than I thought. But, I didn't remember when I was told about it, and hadn't thought about it until this thread brought up the memory. I switched to digital for work in 2006. That, I remember vividly.

 

[gns]

I didn't know this. I've always loved his large format work. Do you know which project or book he has used digital for?

On the beach 2.0.
The negative images.
At least some of the border pictures.

Represented by P-M...
Stephen Shore (correction...not at P/M, but using digital cameras)
Paul Graham
Todd Papageorge
Richard Benson

 

[jsrockit]

Thanks PKR and gns. I always find it interesting when someone goes through a major change. I guess I haven't kept up with his latest work.

 

[PKR]

Thanks PKR and gns. I always find it interesting when someone goes through a major change.

I think in Richard's case he was forced into it, like many of us. I'm sure he would have liked to move more gradually into digital, as digital was in early stages for his big print work. I had a 16mp Kodak camera in 2006, which was SOTA . If was great for what it was, but.. producing 5 x 10' high resolution prints out of those files was asking a bit much. Anyway, he got into it and is, a master printer to boot.

 

[sojournerphoto]

What is clear is that process matters to artists

 

[victoriapio]

I'm lucky. I started in the film days and .... SNIP ...

But I'm rarely asked to shoot film. I'm rarely asked to shoot digital. Delivery is usually in some digital form, but no one cares if it is a digital original or scanned film. I do deliver large prints for some theater jobs, but no one cares whether they are darkroom or computer prints. They evaluate the job by the final result. The last time I delivered large prints for display outside of a theatre, the images were slightly cropped and from an APS-c sensor. It's not what I would do for an architectural job, but I have a feeling that these days some really good architectural photographer is going to see his 8x10 transparency reproduced on some realtor's web site that really short changes the picture's quality. I think more and more that in many cases, as digital improves and film services decline, in the client's mind it doesn't matter what you shoot as long as it does the job.

Got it. That clients do not care if it is film or digital speaks volumes on how far digital has improved. But I agree with you that yes, it shouldn't matter what you shoot as long as it does the job; and it is the professional's job to pick the best method for the assignment, a power most pros have had since long before the film/digital debate. I would think that helps todays working photographer. If the architecture photographer has an 8x10 film camera and has mastered the development and printing process for that format, then by all means use it. That makes good business sense and it best for the client too. If some young pro has an 8x10 digital back or a tilt and shift lens on a digital body, and can get proofs to the client for review in a few hours, then more power to him/her.

 

[victoriapio]

I'm a Blurb fan. That's where a lot of my family pictures end up. My point is just to get those pictures in some form where they are easy to recognize as pictures, not some weird metal box with strange connector outlets or some DVD that for some reason doesn't have a label (although I am a fan of large metal boxes with strange connector outlets for the living).

I too find that Blurb is a great way to archive images and with old family photos you can caption them with proper identification.

 

[jsrockit]

I'm a Blurb fan. That's where a lot of my family pictures end up. My point is just to get those pictures in some form where they are easy to recognize as pictures, not some weird metal box with strange connector outlets or some DVD that for some reason doesn't have a label (although I am a fan of large metal boxes with strange connector outlets for the living).

Yes, my hard drive situation is not exactly making feel good about the future of my work. When I lived in NYC... I made monthly books of anything I thought could be interesting in the future... a rough edit at least... just to have something printed. Now I live in Chile and I will try to do one every 6 months and edit them down a lot further. This is a pro for film and a con for digital in a way... a box of negatives or slides IS more appealing than a HD to anyone other than the person who made them. However, books have given me a cost effective way to print everything and something that is left behind (if anyone cares).

 

[PKR]

Yes, my hard drive situation is not exactly making feel good about the future of my work. When I lived in NYC... I made monthly books of anything I thought could be interesting in the future... a rough edit at least... just to have something printed. Now I live in Chile and I will try to do one every 6 months and edit them down a lot further. This is a pro for film and a con for digital in a way... a box of negatives or slides IS more appealing than a HD to anyone other than the person who made them. However, books have given me a cost effective way to print everything and something that is left behind (if anyone cares).

Hi John; Read from the attached link, and print!
https://www.pdnonline.com/features/photo-archiving-in-the-digital-age-longevity-is-no-sure-thing/

 

[jsrockit]

Hi John; Read from the attached link, and print!
https://www.pdnonline.com/features/photo-archiving-in-the-digital-age-longevity-is-no-sure-thing/

Thanks... loved this: "What’s more, a signed and dated print is the currency of the fine art photographic market, Wilhelm says. “You don’t see people spending $5.6 million for a file.”

 

[PKR]

Thanks... loved this: "What’s more, a signed and dated print is the currency of the fine art photographic market, Wilhelm says. “You don’t see people spending $5.6 million for a file.”

I don't know how others are about this but, about 50% of the time, I know when I've got a really good picture (I only get a few of these a year). If I'm working with digital gear, and have film cameras near by, I back up the image on film. I often do it with a portrait subject that's important to me. If they are willing to wait a bit, I make lighting adjustments for film and run a roll or two. Most are impressed that I would want to do this and make the time. I make a digital contact sheet of the film takes for them.

 

[mgrinnan]

I shoot film, usually bulk HP5, because I am a poor person... that said, I shoot Leica, so I’m one of the richest poor people I know. Before I took up photography as a hobby, my photos were all on instagram/iphone 4 camera. It was broken, and I had to find a new way to take pictures. I’ve been amazed at the IQ provided by vintage lenses and cheap equipment; when you’re comparing analog results to shots taken by smartphones (i.e., the majority of photographs I see on a daily basis), there’s no comparison. I have only met one person in Austin with a pro DSLR, and was never impressed by his photographs... the other photographers I’ve met (some have made names/$ for themselves) shoot with whatever they have available....

 

[Richard G]

Here is Michael A Smith of Pennyslvania and Lodima Press on why he does what he does. Worth reading the marvellous piece f11 Magazine (NZ) had on him in their Feb issue last year:

"It does not matter what equipment any photographer uses. Why do I use a large view camera? It is the pleasure in the process. The pleasure in the process is what keeps one going. Artists are interested in making things, not things made."

Love that last sentence. Reminiscent of Barnwulf's signature, the quote form Giacometti:

"I no longer work for anything other than the sensation I have while working."

Like film and want to use a favourite film camera? Do it.

 

[mani]

As a person who worked with digital imaging for a number of years, I switched to film for my own use because I vastly prefer the resulting image, not the process itself.

I'll leave it at that - as uncontroversial as I can possibly make my post.

(Edited my post because whoever censored what I originally wrote left part of a sentence that referred to something quite different).

 

[cz23]

I hesitate to say this, but as a person who worked with digital imaging for a number of years, I switched to film for my own use because I vastly prefer the resulting image, not the process itself.

I'll leave it at that - as uncontroversial as I can possibly make my post.

As one who has also recently returned to film, mainly for its aesthetic, this raises an interesting question for me.

I've noticed that for some reason I value my film images more. If a digital camera produced an identical image, would I feel the same? I suspect not. So I think it's at least partially the process that enhances my perception of value. Perhaps it also has something to do with the fact that it's a physical medium.

John

 

[cz23]

.... However, books have given me a cost effective way to print everything and something that is left behind (if anyone cares).

I've got an Epson P800 and print a lot, but the cost of ink and paper troubles me. I'm considering the book approach instead. Not as nice quality, I'm sure, but you could print a Blurb book for the price on one ink cartridge.

And there's a lot to be said for having a collection under one cover. I think a book mindset would suit my approach to photography.

John