Why keep an M8 if you have an M9?

Nikon Bob said:
Sorry, I was thinking of using an ND on the M9 not M8. No reason to keep the M8 for that one extra stop of shutter speed over the M9 just to be able to shoot wide open in daylight when you can use an ND filter on the 9. Yea, I would agree that an ND on top of IR/UV filter on an M8 sounds like a can of worms.

Bob
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hi everyone, I'm new here, just bought a second hand M8.2 (my first rangefinder) so I've got a huge learning curve ahead of me!

My question is - I was going to suggest using an ND filter too but why do you say that this would wreak havoc on the M8 in particular? Multiple filters are often used in DSLRs and motion capture cameras.
 
The difference in color rendition may be due to the different IR sensitivity, and it's still different whether the M8 has a IR Cut filter or not.

The IR issue is one reason to keep an M8 I think, and if it is an M8.2 or has the frameline upgrade, then 2meter framelines might be another reason.
 
Lax Jought said:
I was going to suggest using an ND filter too but why do you say that this would wreak havoc on the M8 in particular? Multiple filters are often used in DSLRs and motion capture cameras.
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The only issues would be mechanical vignetting and filter reflection.

*Vignetting would only be a problem when you stuck two filters on a very wide lens, even with the crop factor of the M8 there could be some vignetting.

*The serious issue about stacking these filters would be that the UV/IR filters are very prone to causing unwanted reflections. If you had the best ND filter money could buy you still may get a nasty reflection of a light source or specular highlight. This can be seen easily at night if you use the UV/IR and shoot a night scene with light sources. The light will appear upside-down and on the other side of the frame. This is really annoying and why I take my UV/IR filters off the camera once lights come on.

Other than those two reasons there shouldn't be any reason for not using a ND on top of a UV/IR or the other way around.

Phil Forrest
 
Doug said:
The difference in color rendition may be due to the different IR sensitivity, and it's still different whether the M8 has a IR Cut filter or not.

The IR issue is one reason to keep an M8 I think, and if it is an M8.2 or has the frameline upgrade, then 2meter framelines might be another reason.
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Phil_F_NM said:
The only issues would be mechanical vignetting and filter reflection.

*Vignetting would only be a problem when you stuck two filters on a very wide lens, even with the crop factor of the M8 there could be some vignetting.

*The serious issue about stacking these filters would be that the UV/IR filters are very prone to causing unwanted reflections. If you had the best ND filter money could buy you still may get a nasty reflection of a light source or specular highlight. This can be seen easily at night if you use the UV/IR and shoot a night scene with light sources. The light will appear upside-down and on the other side of the frame. This is really annoying and why I take my UV/IR filters off the camera once lights come on.

Other than those two reasons there shouldn't be any reason for not using a ND on top of a UV/IR or the other way around.

Phil Forrest
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ah thanks I didn't know that. I mentioned that there will be a steep learning curve. I think it begins now.
 
Phil_F_NM said:
mine serves me right now as my primary camera since my M9 is at Leica getting a red pixel/line issue fixed.

Phil Forrest
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Oh, no! I thought this probem was history with the M8! I promissed myself that I would not buy a M9 if 'only one' M9 was identified with this Red Line Problem.

Hell!
 
Olsen said:
Oh, no! I thought this probem was history with the M8! I promissed myself that I would not buy a M9 if 'only one' M9 was identified with this Red Line Problem.
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I know a BUNCH of folks who have had the red pixel fixed in their M9. Mine showed up as soon as I got the camera new last October, I think. I didn't see it until the 4th day of ownership since I was head over heels for the camera.

It's not nearly as bad as the issue with the M8 since the offending pixels in the M9 aren't usually dead or hot like in the M8. One pixel out of 18 million is actually pretty good and usually it's never seen. It only showed up at higher ISO settings and when that particular pixel didn't receive enough signal excess. If it was properly exposed, it wasn't there. Same with the M8 for the most part.

Since my camera is in warranty I'll just get it fixed from the factory but the M8 is out of warranty. If the issue pops up in the M8 again, I'll just apply the correction to the pixel with a script in post, no big deal.

Phil Forrest
 
Phil_F_NM said:
I know a BUNCH of folks who have had the red pixel fixed in their M9. Mine showed up as soon as I got the camera new last October, I think. I didn't see it until the 4th day of ownership since I was head over heels for the camera.

It's not nearly as bad as the issue with the M8 since the offending pixels in the M9 aren't usually dead or hot like in the M8. One pixel out of 18 million is actually pretty good and usually it's never seen. It only showed up at higher ISO settings and when that particular pixel didn't receive enough signal excess. If it was properly exposed, it wasn't there. Same with the M8 for the most part.

Since my camera is in warranty I'll just get it fixed from the factory but the M8 is out of warranty. If the issue pops up in the M8 again, I'll just apply the correction to the pixel with a script in post, no big deal.

Phil Forrest
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All the folks I know who have a M8 have had the Red Line Problem! All!

I have had three other digital cameras in my life: Canon 1Ds/1Ds II/1Ds III. The last of them with the possibility using 3600 ISO - - None of these cameras ever showed ONE dead or red pixel or lines . EVER!

I am absolutely convinced that another technical failure like the M8 and Leica is history.

So now what!?
 
Phil,

I have tested my M8 and M9 along side of eachother. The M8 do produce a red line at ISO 2500, but only in one of ten exposures. Sometime a line can be seen on the lcd, but not in C1. My M9 is totally free of 'lines'. The structure of the noise looks different than on the M9.

I know of sure that this 'Red Line Issue' was huge a few years back. Particularly the summer/automn of 2007. On the M8, mind you. But none seem to confirm that this is a problem also with M9. I have checked with M9 users at l-camera-forum.
 
Olsen,
The issue with the M9 is not a red line so much as a red pixel. From the pixel there is a vertical line that runs part or all the way through the frame. I can send or post a photo to demonstrate if you like.
The dead pixel and line are quite hard to find sometimes, but on smooth, lighter colored backgrounds, they become obvious.
All told I have seen the issue personally on three cameras here in the Philly/NYC region.
Here's just one thread:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/124499-m9-red-line-dead-pixel-thread.html
If you search for Leica M9 red pixel you'll find a ton of information on it.

Phil Forrest
 
Phil,

Thank you!

Had I known that the same Red Line is a problem with the M9 also I would not have bought one. All, absolutely all, Leica M8s that I know of directly here in Norway have been to Solms for the Red Line Fix. Mine included. I should mention that Leica was very helpful and fixed it - cost free, in my case, at least. Nor have the Red Line been a problem since. To what I know, neither of the other users hit have paid anything. Which is fine.

Is there no other fix than sending the camera to Solms?
 
It won't show up in properly exposed frames usually. Mine showed up at ISOs above 400. Just one red pixel, which I'd have never seen were it not for the dark line that radiates from the pixel. The line was cyan in my case.
As for a fix, the only thing you can do is deal with it in post production. There are a few pixel mapping scripts out there that work well, I think.
To get the hardware fixed, your only option would be to send it to Solms. Mine is at Leica New Jersey where they take care of the issue in software, instead of replacing the sensor, or so I've heard. This is a different issue than the M8 dead pixel.
I don't think it's a reason not to buy the camera though. It's inconvenient, yes but not a deal breaker since the service from Leica regarding this issue has been fantastic.
Phil Forrest
 
What you describe is exactly the same issue I had with my M8 - and affected many other Norwegian Leica users too.
 
I did a test shot as you said, with the lens cover on. The M9 file is pitch dark while the M8 looks like a star spangled night sky in the desert. But no lines in neither. (Puh!)
 
The files do have a different look.

But, I think you nailed it John:

3 months repair time in NJ (and believe me you will need to send it in at some point) is unacceptable.
 
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