Why Leica Matters

[Roger Hicks]

I don't think I've seen many people sniping at Leicas or any other make of camera, if I understand the use of the word "snipe" in this context. What I have seen is a clash over perceived values.

As to the causes of these clashes? I think that individuals on both sides make statements that are, in my opinion, intended to inflame people of the other group. From one side there's the "dentist" comment, which we recently saw nicely inverted in an amusing thread here, while from the other side we see comments along the lines of "when you learn to take real photos, you'll be able to understand why real photographers use this camera".

I think that there are hot-heads on both sides and perhaps the moderators might be more proactive in discouraging the comments that are inflamatory. It's one thing to say how pleased you are with a particular camera. It's quite another to claim that anyone, who uses a different type of camera, doesn't know what they're talking about.

Seldom. There are the thoughtless comments -- "Leicas are irrelevant" -- and the thin-skinned, into which camp I admit I sometimes fall. Perhaps a more realistic version of one of your sentences might be, "when you learn to take real photos, you'll be able to understand why real photographers use this camera" -- whether "this camera" is a Leica, a micro 4/3, a Lomo or anything else.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

Perhaps a more realistic version of one of your sentences might be, "when you learn to take real photos, you'll be able to understand why real photographers use this camera" -- whether "this camera" is a Leica, a micro 4/3, a Lomo or anything else.

That is a sensible extension to add but, in this case, was not what I had in mind. I have certainly seen this sort of jibe emenate from the Leica camp but I didn't want to make an aggressive comment.

 

[Roger Hicks]

That is a sensible extension to add but, in this case, was not what I had in mind. I have certainly seen this sort of jibe emenate from the Leica camp but I didn't want to make an aggressive comment.

You are no doubt right. I'm sure I've said the same sort of thing myself, whether thoughtlessly or (I hope rather more often) jokingly. But those who hate Leicas are sometimes even thinner skinned than those who love them.

Cheers,

R.

 

[marek_]

I find that to many, Leicas, and other rangefinders are oddities. Many people I encounter don't recognise them as cameras like they do with SLRs, point & shoots, mobile phones - to a teenager an iphone is more a camera than an M4 - which is alien to them. When I'm on a train or waiting around and fiddling with my M4-p or Canon III, people are curious about the object in my hand. I like to let them hold the thing - just the weight and build surprises them. That's one reason why leicas are important.

 

[hepcat]

Why so much angst over what other people think about your camera? Maybe your camera brand matters too much?

Remember it is just a tool 🙂

Actually, the camera brand matters little at all past one's ability to use it. That's why those comments reflect more about the person making the camera.

 

[Mcary]

That I'm not so much in agreement with. I think a large number of people get miffed at what they see as an arrogant attitude held by Leica users towards others and this forum is, I think, sometimes host to examples of that. Perhaps we should all take the view that what we like may not be liked by others and that everyones' opinions are equally valid on this subject?

:angel:

All one has to do is visit any camera specific forum be it Leica, Canon or Nikon to find individuals with an arrogant attitude.

 

[hepcat]

All one has to do is visit any camera specific forum be it Leica, Canon or Nikon to find individuals with an arrogant attitude.

That's an interesting observation, and I wonder if it doesn't reflect on a generational difference. I think people like me who've used Leica for forty years recognize the camera as a working tool; albeit an expensive tool. I have noticed that there are apparently some people who post on forums who have bought Leica in the last few years who have perhaps bought the brand or model because it's expensive and see that as some kind of entitlement or admission fee.

 

[Mcary]

I said this earlier and I'll say it again now that I remember when Leica was over twice as much as the top of the line Canons (F-1) and Nikons (F) and now Leica M is about the same as the top of the line Canons and Nikons. So looks like the big two have caught up but I don't hear the same crying that they are to expensive. And as far as Leica M glass goes, you probably won't loose a dime on that. In fact in most cases you will only see the value go up. See how that works with Nikon or Canon.

I have several friends that are like me full time working professionals that have Leica M digital. I am one also. I don't have all the stuff. Only the stuff that works with the way I work and see. If you don't try and acquire it all just to settle you might be surprised at what you can afford. I'm far from rich as are the others I have mentioned but we do prioritize.

The way I see ot why should anyone else care if I want to spend my $2200-2400 dollars on a 50mm Summicron, or 28mm Elmarit or 90mm Summarit rather then a Canon 24-70L or 70-200 (IS) L? I mean its my money I'm spending not theirs 🙂

 

[Roger Hicks]

The way I see ot why should anyone else care if I want to spend my $2200-2400 dollars on a 50mm Summicron, or 28mm Elmarit or 90mm Summarit rather then a Canon 24-70L or 70-200 (IS) L? I mean its my money I'm spending not theirs 🙂

Yeah, but you're spending it wisely. They're jealous.

(See post above about humour).

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . I have noticed that there are apparently some people who post on forums who have bought Leica in the last few years who have perhaps bought the brand or model because it's expensive and see that as some kind of entitlement or admission fee.

Either that or just an internet difference. There were probably always people like that. It's just that in the old days the only people to whom they could reveal themselves as fools were members of their local camera club, or the shop where they bought the kit. Now they have a world wide audience (and can link up with their fellow fools).

Cheers,

R.

 

[hepcat]

Either that or just an internet difference. There were probably always people like that. It's just that in the old days the only people to whom they could reveal themselves as fools were members of their local camera club, or the shop where they bought the kit. Now they have a world wide audience (and can link up with their fellow fools).

Cheers,

R.

Point taken. The internet has given voice to many people who had none before... and who shouldn't have one still.

 

[airfrogusmc]

And I'm sure some people with those big white lenses on 1DsMkIII and such. I don't think that they are any different.

There will always be those that use cameras as accessories.

 

[airfrogusmc]

The way I see ot why should anyone else care if I want to spend my $2200-2400 dollars on a 50mm Summicron, or 28mm Elmarit or 90mm Summarit rather then a Canon 24-70L or 70-200 (IS) L? I mean its my money I'm spending not theirs 🙂

Agree.........

 

[noisycheese]

When I got my first Leica M camera and lens, I got them for a whole laundry list of reasons.

Things that on that list were:
Lenses are second to none
Legendary durabillity/reliability
Outstanding performance in low light
Exceptionally quiet operation

Things that were not on that list were:
Status
What other people will think
MP and 50 Summilux were endorsed by Consumer Reports as "best buys."

 

[Emile de Leon]

Leica has a sound business model for the current times we live in..
Sell to the rich..or people with some extra disposable income..
Or Pros with a penchant for the past..and who can write it off at the end of the year..
In the past 10 years or so..this has been a winning market strategy for a lot of successful companies..sell to the rich..
The companies that went for low end sales..at this time..are the ones..having problems..if they are even in business anymore..
But..that said..lets not kid ourselves..
Leica at this point in time is really high priced..for what it is...
Look at those lens prices..sheesh...
And the bodies..man o' man..they will be askin for your next born child..soon enough..!
In the 40s..it was expensive too..but even my poor restaurant waiter dad..still managed to get his hands on one..
Back then..they were jewels of handmade construction...with a lifespan of over 50 years..if taken care of..
But today..they have 1/10th the realistic lifespan if that...for the digital ones that is..
So the argument of the cams adjusting to inflation costing only a bit more..is not realistic..
The digital Leica..will be middle aged at 2 to 3..old at 5..and most likely dead soon after..if you can get repair parts or batteries for it..
To the wealthy..this does not matter..
To the guy or gal on a budget..or works a straight gig..
Well..thats another story entirely..

 

[Mcary]

Leica has a sound business model for the current times we live in..
Sell to the rich..or people with some extra disposable income..
Or Pros with a penchant for the past..and who can write it off at the end of the year..
In the past 10 years or so..this has been a winning market strategy for a lot of successful companies..sell to the rich..
The companies that went for low end sales..at this time..are the ones..having problems..if they are even in business anymore..
But..that said..lets not kid ourselves..
Leica at this point in time is really high priced..for what it is...
Look at those lens prices..sheesh...
And the bodies..man o' man..they will be askin for your next born child..soon enough..!
In the 40s..it was expensive too..but even my poor restaurant waiter dad..still managed to get his hands on one..
Back then..they were jewels of handmade construction...with a lifespan of over 50 years..if taken care of..
But today..they have 1/10th the realistic lifespan if that...for the digital ones that is..
So the argument of the cams adjusting to inflation costing only a bit more..is not realistic..
The digital Leica..will be middle aged at 2 to 3..old at 5..and most likely dead soon after..if you can get repair parts or batteries for it..
To the wealthy..this does not matter..
To the guy or gal on a budget..or works a straight gig..
Well..thats another story entirely..

Waaaaaaaaaa I can't afford something so anyone that can must be wealthy or engaged in illicit activities . What complete load of whining dribble.

 

[zuiko85]

I bought my Leica, a M4-2, as a retirement present to myself. My experience is a cautionary tale. A pretty face ain't everything. Mine has steadly fallen apart. I finally sent it in for repar and although it functions are nomal now I looked down the other day and observed that the PC socket for flash bulbs had fallen out somewhere. A look inside the hole revealed the piece it was screwed into had cracked and seperated enough for it to fall out. Oh well, I don't intend to ever use bulbs anyway so no big deal. I put a piece of black masking tape over the hole and gone my merry way.

When I'm out and about no one ever has commented on the Leica except for the generic, "Is that a film camera?" Amusingly when I was carring my Pen F a gentleman asked, "Is that a Leica?" Well, it is about the same size as a III series Leica so I could see the confusion.

My answer by the way was, "No, Leica never made a camera this neat"

 

[Michael Markey]

Amusingly when I was carring my Pen F a gentleman asked, "Is that a Leica?" Well, it is about the same size as a III series Leica so I could see the confusion.
My answer by the way was, "No, Leica never made a camera this neat"

When I was using my Bessa L a chap came up to me and said "Is that a Leica".

My answer by the way was "No this is a Leica", as I pulled an M3 from my bag.

Sell the Leica and keep the Pen F ... its not a difficult decision.

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

Sell the Leica and keep the Pen F ... its not a difficult decision.

Well, doesn't that depend on how good your processing technique is, and how big you like your grain?

Okay, okay, just getting my coat...

🙂

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . The digital Leica..will be middle aged at 2 to 3..old at 5..and most likely dead soon after..if you can get repair parts or batteries for it... .

This is complete rubbish. My M8 will be 8 this year and still works fine; my M9 will be 5. Your figures are completely made up.

Your analysis of the prices is pretty shaky, too.

Cheers,

R.