Why not Fuji sensor?

[drjoke]

In my very biased opinion, Fuji seems to be making the best sensor out there. What they did with S5Pro was great, which seems to almost double the dynamic range. But, you all should check out the new S100FS, where they manage to match dynamic range of DSLR with a tiny sensor. Imagine that technology being used in a larger sensor or even a full frame.

Or you all think the next M8 upgrade will still be based on Kodak sensor?

 

[jaapv]

The Kodak sensor has shifted microlenses to compensate for the short register on a rangefinder camera. Combined with the crop and software corrections the sensor of the M8 is the absolute limit of what can be done with current technology. Fuji's sensors are even more sensitive to steep incidence angles than CCD sensors, so the use of them at the time being and the forseeable future is out of the question unless one would use smaller than APS-C. A sensor upgrade is highly unlikely too, as it is not just the sensor, but the whole electronic hardware.

 

[Roger Hicks]

The Kodak sensor has shifted microlenses to compensate for the short register on a rangefinder camera. Combined with the crop and software corrections the sensor of the M8 is the absolute limit of what can be done with current technology. Fuji's sensors are even more sensitive to steep incidence angles than CCD sensors, so the use of them at the time being and the forseeable future is out of the question unless one would use smaller than APS-C. A sensor upgrade is highly unlikely too, as it is not just the sensor, but the whole electronic hardware.

Dear Jaap,

Yes, but there is a much bigger market for uninformed speculation than for serious engineering.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

There is not much technical information on the Fuji website regarding their CCD's. It uses a honeycomb pattern rather than the traditional square shape of the Kodak arrays.

Kodak has very detailed information regarding their CCD's, including detector response vs position on the CCD. They also publish spectral response, and other information useful to using their arrays in custom equipment.

But the days when you could call the factory and ask them to make a camera that required a special run through the CCD manufacturing process are probably over. Gone the way of the polite response on an Internet Forum.

And that custom Kodak CCD is still working after 16 years. I asked them to leave the IR cut filter off and to replace it with clear glass. They had not offered Infrared versions of the DCS100 or DCS200 before. And only an extra $4,000 for the custom run.

Just to be fair, my full-frame Nikon DSLR uses a Fuji sensor. It still works in the 11-year old camera. I bought it used, off of Ebay. Nikon did not make many E3's. It does color. The Kodak is monochrome only.

And I do think the next Leica will be based on a Kodak Sensor.

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/busi...erline/KAI-16000/overview.jhtml?pq-path=12048

 

[Sonnar Brian]

This was a nice write-up on the Kodak Sensor:

www.imaging.org/pubs/reporter/issues/Reporter21_2.pdf

I'm not coming up with any good on-line articles for the Fuji Super-CCD's. If anyone has some bookmarked, how about posting them here.

Kodak has always been very open with their technical documentation. It's easy to find very detailed data sheets on their website.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Well it's a good think that no one asked about the Intel 8085 vs a Zilog Z80a. Those Spec sheets are not quite as exciting. But, I think you'll find the Z80 instruction set is much better than the 8085. Context switches are quite fast on the Z80 because of the secondary register set. Although the 8085 was used in more spacecraft, including the Mars Lander. I'm thinking they used Kodak CCD Sensors.

 

[eon]

No thanks to a SR-sensor from Fuji. I had the Fuji S5 Pro and it gave the least sharp images i have seen from a digital camera. It has to interpolate not only the colors with the Bayer filter, but also the dynamic range with two pixels (S and R).

The dynamic range is great though, but my Nikon D3 has just as good DR as S5 Pro. In alla other aspects the picture quality from D3 is better.

The sensor in M8 is great with good color and sensational shapness. Not the best high ISO capability and just average DR. However the sharpness keeps it ahead of most cameras.

 

[marke]

Dear Jaap,

Yes, but there is a much bigger market for uninformed speculation than for serious engineering.

Has anyone figured how we can make any money off of that yet?

 

[pphuang]

No thanks to a SR-sensor from Fuji. I had the Fuji S5 Pro and it gave the least sharp images i have seen from a digital camera. It has to interpolate not only the colors with the Bayer filter, but also the dynamic range with two pixels (S and R).

Yes, the resolution from a 6 MP camera (or interpolated 12) will never be the same as a true 12 MP camera, but I have found that you can get nice, sharp 13x19 prints from the S5 Pro. Like you, when I first got the S5 Pro, the files seemed to be very soft, and my typical sharpening routines gave me pretty horrible results with lots of jaggies, etc. However, after playing around with the camera settings and experimenting with a variety of post processing sharpening routines, I was eventually able to get quite pleasing results, so if you don't need humongous prints, you will be fine, although I do hope that they will come out with a true 12 MP version of their sensor in the future (mostly to allow for more aggressive cropping when needed)

Here's one example, just to show you capabilities of this sensor. Theater lighting can be TOUGH, both in terms of dynamic range and color rendition, and god help you if there are a lot of white costumes with shiny material on stage. I think this particular photo came out well, and the resolution is good enought to see the detail and textures in the costumes.

I would be the last to argue with you about the overall superiority of the D3 to the S5Pro 😀. The S5 is definitely not the camera for people who need extremely high resolution or who shoot sports/fast action. However, for my style and the types of photos that I like to take, I have found the restricted dynamic range of the current range of sensors to be more irritating than even poor high iso performance, and in this regard, I have found the S5Pro to be a godsend.

According to the graphs on DP Review, the S5Pro has a dynamic range of almost 12 EV compared to about 8.6 EV on the D3, and in practice, I am constantly amazed at what I can pull out from the high and low end of my raw files. I've been so happy with the camera that I eventually sold my D2X, and I have not had a twinge of GAS with regards to the D300/D3 (OK, I admit it, maybe a small twinge 😉).

I really think that multi-diode sensors optimized to different parts of the visible spectrum are the way to go - it would be a shame if the market place does not allow Fuji to continue to develop and refine this concept...

 

[rxmd]

Fuji's sensors are even more sensitive to steep incidence angles than CCD sensors

Why? Fuji's sensor is a CCD sensor.

Philipp

 

[jaapv]

Yes, with straight microlenses. I was hasty and mistyped "than" for "being" . Sorry.