Why William Eggleston is...

[Jamie123]

Isn't that why he paved the way for others to be themselves? Going against the styles of the time even if it meant bad reviews and harsh criticism...and then continuing to do the work anyway.

No because a whole lot of artist before and after Eggleston have been themselves and risked bad reviews and harsh criticism. A lot of them fail and you never hear of them again. Some of them are rediscovered long after. Manet received bad reviews and harsh criticism at the time. Did Manet pave the way for Eggleston to take risks?

Eggleston has not made it any safer for artists to go against the styles of the time. It's always a risk with a high failure rate. If anything, Eggleston paved the way for other photographers to work in the style of Eggleston.

 

[Sparrow]

No because a whole lot of artist before and after Eggleston have been themselves and risked bad reviews and harsh criticism. A lot of them fail and you never hear of them again. Some of them are rediscovered long after. Manet received bad reviews and harsh criticism at the time. Did Manet pave the way for Eggleston to take risks?

Eggleston has not made it any safer for artists to go against the styles of the time. It's always a risk with a high failure rate. If anything, Eggleston paved the way for other photographers to work in the style of Eggleston.

... so it's he who is responsible for all this dross on flickr then? ... I'm just thankful Manet had no part in it, he had talent after all ... I'm glad he had no involvement 🙂

 

[Exdsc]

Why would he go visit Szarkowski if he had no clue about his own work?

That is why I linked the documentary.

He sat in a room with Szarkowski and a projector with his slides, Szarkowski selected the photos.

 

[Jamie123]

... so it's he who is responsible for all this dross on flickr then?

I don't know. You tell me, Mr. 2731 items 😀
Or are you trying to say that that's how many keepers you have 😉

But honestly, I don't know how anyone with even the slightest contemporary visual literacy can deny Eggleston's talent as a photographer. You might not agree on the importance attributed to him and you might think others were/are better but can honestly tell me you think the guy is a hack??

 

[Jamie123]

I said supposedly because I was born in the 80s so all of this is just hearsay 🙂

But my point was that as far as I know taking color pictures was a normal part of everybody's photography except artists'. The groundbreaking aspect wasn't that he and others took color photographs, it was that these color photographs were displayed in galleries and museums instead of falimy albums and magazine pages.

 

[Sparrow]

I don't know. You tell me, Mr. 2731 items 😀
Or are you trying to say that that's how many keepers you have 😉

But honestly, I don't know how anyone with even the slightest contemporary visual literacy can deny Eggleston's talent as a photographer. You might not agree on the importance attributed to him and you might think others were/are better but can honestly tell me you think the guy is a hack??

... you will notice I offer a critique of my flickr within my signature ... hack is probably stretching my opinion a tad

 

[Jamie123]

... you will notice I offer a critique of my flickr within my signature ... hack is probably stretching my opinion a tad

Please don't get me wrong, I wasn't attacking or critisizing your work. I was just making a tongue-in-cheek comment regarding the sheer amount of images people upload to flickr and how it is unlikely that even those who upload the pictures believe all of them to meet the highest quality standards.
(Something which I don't have a problem with, btw.)

 

[benlees]

That is why I linked the documentary.

He sat in a room with Szarkowski and a projector with his slides, Szarkowski selected the photos.

I think the point jsrocket was trying to make was that to get to the point of knocking on MoMa's door you know you are already on to something. Having a curator pick and choose isn't out of the ordinary.

 

[Jamie123]

"I was there and, "we" were taking plenty of color photos, but as you note, until Metro Pictures et al. -- no one was paying any attention.

I really enjoy Eggleston, he is clearly a photographer by classic definitions, I am not a photographer so I can't really speak for that group, since I am an outsider to that way of thinking of oneself."

Yeah, that's why I don't really believe it when they frame it in dramatically revolutionary terms. It was just a case of some younger artist not ascribing to the dogmas of the old guard. It might've felt revolutionary to some people but often it is framed as if they somehow invented color art photography.

I enjoy Eggleston, too, and to me he's the ultimate "photographer's photographer" by which I mean, if you're someone who's just generally interested in how the world looks through the lens of a camera (as opposed to only being interested in a very specific subject), you probably appreciate Eggleston.
As for the photographer vs. artist who uses photography distinction, I never really bought into that. If you use a camera to take a picture you are a photographer (for at least the amount of time it takes you to take the picture). But that's another topic.

 

[Sparrow]

Please don't get me wrong, I wasn't attacking or critisizing your work. I was just making a tongue-in-cheek comment regarding the sheer amount of images people upload to flickr and how it is unlikely that even those who upload the pictures believe all of them to meet the highest quality standards.
(Something which I don't have a problem with, btw.)

... I've been a working artist for forty years so I have a fairly thick skin by now, I'm seldom offended ... however I often wonder if Egglesson's stuff is so popular simply because it's so easy to replicate, sort of a "me too I'm also an artist" effect, I'm not trying to offend either I just personally don't see the artistry

 

[Jamie123]

... I've been a working artist for forty years so I have a fairly thick skin by now, I'm seldom offended ... however I often wonder if Egglesson's stuff is so popular simply because it's so easy to replicate, sort of a "me too I'm also an artist" effect, I'm not trying to offend either I just personally don't see the artistry

Yes, I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to attack your opinion by critisizing your work. Firstly, I have honestly not really looked at the pictures, secondly I don't believe one has to do with the other. I'm probably only a mediocre photographer but I think I have pretty good taste. (That's why I know all my pictures suck.)

As for Eggleston's stuff being easy to replicate, maybe, but so is The Beatles' music. Influential work always inspires many imitators.

 

[steveniphoto]

I often wonder if Egglesson's stuff is so popular simply because it's so easy to replicate, sort of a "me too I'm also an artist" effect, I'm not trying to offend either I just personally don't see the artistry

i dont necessarily think that his work is easy to replicate.. there are many who try and most of them fail imo because they only focus on one aspect of his images.

i find the same with Daido Moriyama.. people start taking blurry, high contrast, grainy images of everything to get that "Daido effect" but they miss the whole point of why he does that and what he tries to achieve with his work.

just my opinion of course.

 

[Dave Jenkins]

No wonder he is bored.

Not just bored, but profoundly boring.

 

[kingqueenknave]

i dont necessarily think that his work is easy to replicate.. there are many who try and most of them fail imo because they only focus on one aspect of his images.

i find the same with Daido Moriyama.. people start taking blurry, high contrast, grainy images of everything to get that "Daido effect" but they miss the whole point of why he does that and what he tries to achieve with his work.

just my opinion of course.

You are absolutely right.

 

[anjoca76]

... I've been a working artist for forty years so I have a fairly thick skin by now, I'm seldom offended ... however I often wonder if Egglesson's stuff is so popular simply because it's so easy to replicate, sort of a "me too I'm also an artist" effect, I'm not trying to offend either I just personally don't see the artistry

If I ever made a photograph--particularly on 35mm film--as amazing (IMO) as his famous one of the woman stirring a cocktail on an airplane, I would be reposting it here every day in every thread. And that's just one example. I really think his work is terrific. Obviously not all of it. That would be impossible. But of course I see lot of terrific images here every day too. I think Bill Pierce has made many stunning photographs that routinely leave me amazed. So have lots of others here on RFF who merely consider themselves hobbyists. It's all a matter of taste. It's art.

I, for one, think Eggleston is deserving of his reputation. It's not just his use of color, but also his use of golden hour lighting, and his, at first glance, pedestrian subjects, like supermarkets and strip malls. His photos remind me of the visual equivalent of an early John Updike novel.

But then again, hey, what do I know? To each his or her own.

The Beatles are usually considered the best band ever--or certainly one of them--yet I know people who can't stand them.

 

[kbg32]

One has to put Eggleston in context with his time and place in photographic history. John Szarkowski made a lot of careers and definitively had favorites. One has only to read Szarkowski's writings and look at his photography to get an understanding of what moved him. His idea of the "mirror" and the "window" showed the dichotomy that existed in photography. He loved Atget - Arbus, Winogrand, and Friedlander were his babies. Eggleston said it all for him, but in color.

 

[kbg32]

I guess I can call myself a chef. I made a grilled cheese sandwich for my son yesterday.

 

[kbg32]

I like a good grilled cheese, many make them all wrong -- too much butter, you may be a chef of grilled cheese in my eyes.[/QUOTE]

Too much butter can ruin a simply delicious grilled cheese sandwich. My son, who is 4, does not like it buttery as well.

 

[MIkhail]

One point I thought was well-made:

"you must resist seeing through the photograph to the bald image of a recognisable object too quickly, too readily. Instead, begin by looking at the form and the tight framing of the piece, the angle of view, the playing off of colour against shadow – that sort of thing. Otherwise, you will exhaust the imaginative possibilities of Eggleston's work before you even begin."

As for me, I'm one of his fans - he's a great photographer, in my humble opinion.

I second that.

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

Too much butter can ruin a simply delicious grilled cheese sandwich

This is one of the more salient comments made in this thread. People have likes and dislikes but the problems start when they raise those preferences to the status of facts, as Jonathon Swift tried to make clear in his story about Lilliput and Blefuscu.

:angel: