Why William Eggleston is...

[dabick42]

@ jsrockit...

Virtuosos in the same artform that you indulge in at a lower level ARE worth bothering with for the simple reason that they have achieved a level of expertise that you yourself must constantly strive to emulate if you value your contribution to the same artform.

Hero-worshipping and aping the merely competent will not raise your game...

 

[Sparrow]

I didn't get Eggleston until I saw some of the dye transfer prints in person.

Oddly, I always assumed I'd get it once I'd seen the prints

 

[benlees]

A technical wizard he was...

4x5 Speed Graphic camera preset at f/16 at 1/200 of a second, with flashbulbs and a set focus distance of ten feet... 🙂

He was a sort of virtuoso of finding the crime scene though...

Let's not forget the police radio. His virtuosity was his personality. Quite similar to Eggleston....

Who are these Masters? Maybe I need a "Photographers for Dummies" book.

 

[jsrockit]

@ jsrockit...

Virtuosos in the same artform that you indulge in at a lower level ARE worth bothering with for the simple reason that they have achieved a level of expertise that you yourself must constantly strive to emulate if you value your contribution to the same artform.

Hero-worshipping and aping the merely competent will not raise your game...

I agree. I constantly look at photography from the past from many photographers considered masters. However, we could never even come to a consensus as to who the masters / virtuosos of the medium are...

I guess my point is that there are great photographers that are not considered virtuosos by definition i.e. a consummate master of technique and artistry.

Is Eggleston a master of technique on the same level of Sebastião Salgado? Does he need to be? Can this be answered without being simply an opinion?

 

[jsrockit]

Let's not forget the police radio. His virtuosity was his personality. Quite similar to Eggleston....

I agree! but many will call that marketing. 😉

 

[nikonosguy]

i prefer weegee --- i bought a crown graphic, trenchcoat and fedora just to channel my inner weegee --- i need some cuban cigars though.... eggelston is easy --- marketing and image is everything --- i certainly hear nobody cheering the merits of anne geddes or william wegman --- and nobody around here ever talks about howard shatz... sometimes we hear mention of galen rowell --- eggelston gets tiresome --- he's like the rock star that drinks too much, takes way too many drugs and smashes about in hotel rooms... it's a novelty in a sense....

 

[semilog]

Oddly, I always assumed I'd get it once I'd seen the prints

Yup. Me, too. Or at least, I hoped so.

A lot of what his work is about is nuances of color and light. Dye transfer can do things that no other print medium can, and Eggleston exploited the strengths of that medium with tremendous skill. Books and the internet only hint at the content of the prints.

Ctein has a good article out just today that touches these very questions.

To add: last week I went to SFMOMA to see the Winogrand show (super! highly recommended) and also looked at a show of probably a hundred or two prints from the SFMOMA permanent collection. There was a print of this Koudelka picture that fairly jumped off the wall and grabbed me by the optic tectum. Dozens of prints around it, almost all of them by acknowledged masters, looked dingy by comparison.

Don't be too quick to judge someone's work on the basis of a few jpegs...

 

[StevenJohn]

Stanley Kubrick took five years to make some of his movies. He could have done the whole thing in six months like Michael Bay but he took his time.

Slagado took eight years with Gensis and traveled extensively, with his reputation he could have walked out of his Paris apartment and photograph shop windows and garbage bins and so on, people still would have called it "art" but he instead went around the world and a spend almost a decade on a photography project.


People are not stupid, they see a work and know immediately or find out how much effort had gone into it, how much skill and thought, they might be impressed with some novelty due to PR hype and elitist artsy bs but in the end of the day, labor, skill and patience will always win over gimmicky lazy work that got lucky.


If everyone could play sax like Charlie Bird, then Jazz would have been just another fad like disco.

So Michelangelo's David would have been a better piece of art if he sculpted him from granite rather than softer marble? Really?

 

[Ranchu]

Thread needs pics.

 

[Sparrow]

Yup. Me, too. Or at least, I hoped so.

A lot of what his work is about is nuances of color and light. Dye transfer can do things that no other print medium can, and Eggleston exploited the strengths of that medium with tremendous skill. Books and the internet only hint at the content of the prints.

Ctein has a good article out just today that touches these very questions.

To add: last week I went to SFMOMA to see the Winogrand show (super! highly recommended) and also looked at a show of probably a hundred or two prints from the SFMOMA permanent collection. There was a print of this Koudelka picture that fairly jumped off the wall and grabbed me by the optic tectum. Dozens of prints around it, almost all of them by acknowledged masters, looked dingy by comparison.

Don't be too quick to judge someone's work on the basis of a few jpegs...

... I didn't see anything much in his stuff and given other peoples opinion I assumed there would be something special about the prints. When I did see some prints as part of a photographic review of the twentieth century at The National Photography Museum they didn't meet my expectations ... all I saw was lovely prints of mediocre photos.

I'm sorry my opinion offends some folk, I just don't understand what they are raving on about

 

[jsrockit]

John-
I remember seeing a camera (picture of when in school) he made that was small and fit on a roller skate or something like that - that he used photograph a mob meeting. I did a search, but found nothing. I remember it because it was so unique and creative for the time.

pkr

That's awesome if true. Gotta love the man even if you can't handle the images. I went to that Weegee show at the ICP with my girlfriend. Those of us that know Weegee are kind of desensitized to his content, but she didn't know of Weegee (being from Japan and not into photography). That night, she woke up with nightmares due to viewing the exhibit. I had to take a step back and realize that his work is still very powerful.

 

[jsrockit]

Thread needs pics.

View attachment 95640

View attachment 95641

View attachment 95642

Ut oh, someone's trying to start trouble... 😀

 

[Sparrow]

... I fear this concept of loving vs. hating isn't a normal reaction outside the interweb ... and possibly new-york, intellectually I understand some stuff and don't understand others which is not to say it's the same as liking or disliking ... I realise that's a difficult concept

 

[nikonosguy]

nikonosguy? You really do not see the difference? http://www.egglestontrust.com/images/monographs/guide_g.jpg

I see the difference... the shot is either a nod or a bird to him... your choice

 

[gns]

I see the difference... the shot is either a nod or a bird to him... your choice

I too thought you kind of shot yourself in the foot when you said, "Eggleston is easy" and then posted a photo which doesn't come close.

 

[anjoca76]

I've seen so many examples of folks online saying, "Oh, anyone can copy Eggleston," and then posts their version of what they think Eggleston's style is--and it always pales in comparison. And I'm being polite.

 

[semilog]

I'm sorry my opinion offends some folk, I just don't understand what they are raving on about

Don't be sorry. We don't all see things the same way; what a boring place this life would be if we did!

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

...the world's greatest photographer.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...the-worlds-greatest-photographer-8577202.html

Just like the World Series involve only U.S. baseball teams, Diet Dr. Pepper is the world's greatest drink.

What I mean to say is: no. Important? Yes. Very? Perhaps very much so. World's greatest? Bill Gates had once declared the Internet would never amount to anything, until he opened his horizons (well, wallet).

 

[Roger Hicks]

I've seen so many examples of folks online saying, "Oh, anyone can copy Eggleston," and then posts their version of what they think Eggleston's style is--and it always pales in comparison. And I'm being polite.

Maybe, to them, there is no difference. After all, if you see nothing but indifferent snapshots in Eggleston's pics, then maybe your indifferent snapshots really are indistinguishable from Eggleston's pics to you. As semilog points out, we don't all see things the same way.

Cheers,

R.

 

[jsrockit]

Maybe, to them, there is no difference. After all, if you see nothing but indifferent snapshots in Eggleston's pics, then maybe your indifferent snapshots really are indistinguishable from Eggleston's pics to you. As semilog points out, we don't all see things the same way.

Good point Roger...and that is what it boils down to most of the time. However, there are people that CAN see well, photographically speaking, that still do not care for Eggleston's work. There's a difference between understanding and it not being your taste and just not being able to tell the difference because you aren't experienced enough.