Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
It's a shame that the recent turn of this thread from CV lenses to the financial health of Leica Camera AG is hidden from the view of the larger forum.
Perhaps the mods can SPLIT the thread? so that this issue -- which is critical -- can get more attention from the forum at large.
IMO Leica's half million profit is terribly slender. It's the equivalent of a year's income for a handful of people.
Apple was declared dead over and over a decade ago but is now very healthy financially because it's margins are currently in the 20-30% region on $21 billion annually. Leica has very dedicated users like Apple but what product could be Leica's "iPod"?
Perhaps the mods can SPLIT the thread? so that this issue -- which is critical -- can get more attention from the forum at large.
IMO Leica's half million profit is terribly slender. It's the equivalent of a year's income for a handful of people.
Apple was declared dead over and over a decade ago but is now very healthy financially because it's margins are currently in the 20-30% region on $21 billion annually. Leica has very dedicated users like Apple but what product could be Leica's "iPod"?
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
So....voigtlander lens...
I spent some time really getting to know my CV Nokton last night and I was really impressed with the results.
I spent some time really getting to know my CV Nokton last night and I was really impressed with the results.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Most of this turnaround comes from (a) not having to write off any more R&D costs and from (b) having a new product on the market. It will be difficult to turn this turnaround into a trend. If people continue buying M8s as they do, it means a 0% increase in M8 sales, so sales are unlikely to continue rising significantly. And the digital market requires further R&D investment. By now they've shown that they can survive, and the next five years are the critical point for Leica to show that they will.HAnkg said:
Philipp
HAnkg
Well-known
Judging from the comments from Leica management they have abmbitious plans for the next R. The R line is all but dead right now, a successful relaunch could more then double sales. Done right the R could outsell the M line as DSLR's are a more mainstream product. It's all speculation but the new management's actions so far give some hope. Quite a contrast to Leica's position in the last few years.rxmd said:
jdos2
Well-known
To answer to the thread:
"Because there's nobody in the USA (as I understand it) that will warranty adjust these lenses to correct specification," meaning the lens goes back to the factory for adjustment.
This is now 3-out-of-4. 75mm front focuses enough to make faces soft wide open. The 28mm f/1.9 backfocuses- and with a paper shim is almost okay- though of course no longer reaches infinity focus on the rangefinder. 40mm? It'll be back someday, I hope. It was almost a foot behind where focus said it is.
THAT'S why. It's over a month to ship/confirm/repair, by the way.
"Because there's nobody in the USA (as I understand it) that will warranty adjust these lenses to correct specification," meaning the lens goes back to the factory for adjustment.
This is now 3-out-of-4. 75mm front focuses enough to make faces soft wide open. The 28mm f/1.9 backfocuses- and with a paper shim is almost okay- though of course no longer reaches infinity focus on the rangefinder. 40mm? It'll be back someday, I hope. It was almost a foot behind where focus said it is.
THAT'S why. It's over a month to ship/confirm/repair, by the way.
Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
jdos2 said:
Why didn't you just return them to where you bought them?
But I have to say that your experience seems very unusual given the other replies here.
jdos2
Well-known
Joe Mondello said:
Until this afternoon, returning the ones that don't focus correctly would have left me with only a 21mm- and though a fine lens, at f/4 it's kinda dark, and so wide, hard to cover with flash, making it difficult to cover interiors in a 'snapshot' sort of way. I don't like to think I bought an M8 and can't find good lenses for it.
I agree that these problems sound unusual. I can't explain it except in terms of "luck". Today I bought a 30-something year old Summicron-C to help make the returns easier, and it focuses perfectly.
I'd like to think of it as simple poor luck, and the vendor agreed that the lens I sent back (Nokton, so far) had a back-focus problem, and I'm sure the others will receive the same diagnosis. They are simply adjusted incorrectly. The 28mm Nokton too far (past infinity at infinity focus) and the 75mm too close (won't quite reach infinity- even on the rangefinder that's proven correctlly adjusted!)
I'm frustrated. I couldn't afford (can't afford) Leica lenses for the focal lengths I wanted- even used, the CV lenses <i>new</i> were better priced, but sadly, they don't produce in-focus images unless I learn to "correct" for their problems. Again, if I return them for trade and get new, I've no guarantee that I'll have anything that focuses better- my experience with LTM or M mount CV lenses is that 75 percent of the time I'll get one that doesn't focus well. (my "S" mount CV lenses are different- I've never had a complaint!)
I traded in lots of camera gear to get the M8 assuming that I'd have a decent optical system with the CV lenses. I was wrong, though I'm making arrangements for much better (and the Summicron-C is a start- until the Nokton comes back correctly adjusted from the factory!)
There is some good out of this:
I've figured out a good way to tell when a lens is in good focus that is less subjective. I use a window-screen which accurately and easily indicates where the plane of good focus is. A mark or object on the fine mesh shows the focus point. The mesh itself demonstrates a sharp plane of focus very clearly for even the 21mm.
The pictures I take with the CV lenses stopped down are pretty. I knew that when I bought 'em, and that's why I want to continue to pursue them. I'm frustrated.
Joe Mondello
Resu Deretsiger
jdos2 said:
I hear ya -- and I'm certainly sorry about your experience. Hope you get things resolved to your satisfaction by your vendor(s) and/or CV.
jdos2
Well-known
I've many of the same lenses as you, Joe!
Continuing to work with the vendor. Reconfirmed bad focus. Switched LTM adapters in an effort to see if that'd change things.
Confirmed good camera focus with 90mm AA, 35 'Lux ASPH, and the Summicron-C- all of which focus as close to "exactly" as I can tell, as does the 21mm Skopar, though it's wide and dark enough that it's hard to tell precision.
Continuing to work with the vendor. Reconfirmed bad focus. Switched LTM adapters in an effort to see if that'd change things.
Confirmed good camera focus with 90mm AA, 35 'Lux ASPH, and the Summicron-C- all of which focus as close to "exactly" as I can tell, as does the 21mm Skopar, though it's wide and dark enough that it's hard to tell precision.
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
Am I the only one here that would much rather talk about lens, read reviews and see samples?
=)
=)
jdos2
Well-known
The thread is: "Why WOULDN'T You Buy Voigtlander Lenses?"
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
jdos2 said:
touche
And that involves reviews and samples...of course
T
tedwhite
Guest
I'v almost lost track of this thread due, in the main, to lengthy and numerous off-top discussion of corporate health, mainly Leica, but as I understand it, Jdos2's problem with Voigtlander lenses not focusing properly is limited to using them with his M8?
Does anyone have focusing issues using these lenses on M7, M6, M6, etc.?
Are there other M8 users experiencing these focusing problems with Voigtlander lenses?
Ted
Does anyone have focusing issues using these lenses on M7, M6, M6, etc.?
Are there other M8 users experiencing these focusing problems with Voigtlander lenses?
Ted
Sparrow
Veteran
jdos2 said:
I would ask the vendor for a refund and go elsewhere; I can’t recall reading any reports of back/front-focus on CV lenses; something is very wrong with a vendor if they supply 75% of their goods faulty, was the M8 from the same source?
cme4brain
Established
Joe Mondello said:
I only own CV lenses! They are terrific for my purposes (advanced amateur) and I can never justify the incremental increase in picture quality vs. excessive price of Leica glass. I would LOVE to get Leica lenses, but to pay $3500 for a Leica lens that can barely be told apart from a particular CV counterpart won't fly past the wife.
Nor my wife, and me for that matter...cme4brain said:I would LOVE to get Leica lenses, but to pay $3500 for a Leica lens that can barely be told apart from a particular CV counterpart won't fly past the wife.
The more expensive lens HAS to offer some rational reason to pay the added cost. Size, speed, mechanical quality/subjective image quality even. And that's why I have both a 40 Nokton (used) and a 28 Summicron ("new old stock") with just the combination of advantages that most appeals to me. These two lenses are my favorites on the Minolta CLE.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
As modern lenses go CV lenses are quite good and just love the 15mm and 35/1.2 Nokton. Arguably there the 28 Summicron does not have much over the Ultron. However if I want that classic Leica look then I need to reach for that classic Leica lens such as an early 35/1.4 or Summar or Noctilux.
cme4brain
Established
tedwhite said:
I have seven CV lenses and the perform like a champ, no problems, no backfocus issues.
cme4brain
Established
tedwhite said:
I have seven CV lenses and the perform like a champ on my M8, no problems, no backfocus issues.
back alley
IMAGES
the more i play with the cv lens group the more i wonder why most of us don't use them all.
if your a so-so shooter you wouldn't notice the slight difference between the cv and the other way more expensive glass out there and if you're a good shooter, the lenses don't get in the way at all and offer 95% of the quality at 1/3 the price.
if your a so-so shooter you wouldn't notice the slight difference between the cv and the other way more expensive glass out there and if you're a good shooter, the lenses don't get in the way at all and offer 95% of the quality at 1/3 the price.