Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I am an M6 user but was captivated by the beauty of a black Nikon S3 2000 and could not resist buying it. Can anyone recommend a wide angle lens? The 50mm to me a medium tele. I normally use a 35mm Summicron and if I need to go wider I have the latest Zeiss 25mm but a 28mm also suits me. What are the options I should consider for a Nikon? Thanks for your kind advice.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Glad to hear your using that S3.
I can say that the CV SC 35/2.5 Skopar is an excellent choice in new lenses. It has been discontinued, but I believe Cameraquest still has some in stock. I used my on Kiev & Contax cameras, but they are designed to the Nikon mount, IIUC.
For more tradional choices, I'm sure others will speak up soon.
Enjoy!
William
I can say that the CV SC 35/2.5 Skopar is an excellent choice in new lenses. It has been discontinued, but I believe Cameraquest still has some in stock. I used my on Kiev & Contax cameras, but they are designed to the Nikon mount, IIUC.
For more tradional choices, I'm sure others will speak up soon.
Enjoy!
William
VinceC
Veteran
Cosina-Voigtlaender made some reportedly good wides for the Nikon S mount. They're discontinued but can be found. The finder on the S3 is ideal for a 35mm lens. People really seem to like the CV 35/2.5. CV also has a 28/3.5, a 25/4 and a 21/4.
The original Nikkors in 21 and 25mm are scarce and pricey collectibles (every now and then you'll see a 25mm for $1,000 to $2,000. The 21mm will go for four to 10 times that amount.)
The Nikkor 35/2.5 is a superb lens. Kind of heavy in chrome mount, kind of expensive in black mount. The Nikkor 35/1.8 is a classic but not so easy to find and will cost some money.
The Nikkor 28/3.5 is a great lens. Like the 35/2.5, it's kind of heavy in chrome, kind of expensive in black mount.
A logical full outfit for the S3 is a 21/25, a 35, a 50 and a 105.
EDIT: Also, for under $1,000 you can usually find an old Contax-mount Zeiss Biogon 21mm f/4.5. These are really sharp, historic lenses, the first "superwides." They are also chrome and really, really heavy. I have one. I don't carry it as often as I should because of weight.
The original Nikkors in 21 and 25mm are scarce and pricey collectibles (every now and then you'll see a 25mm for $1,000 to $2,000. The 21mm will go for four to 10 times that amount.)
The Nikkor 35/2.5 is a superb lens. Kind of heavy in chrome mount, kind of expensive in black mount. The Nikkor 35/1.8 is a classic but not so easy to find and will cost some money.
The Nikkor 28/3.5 is a great lens. Like the 35/2.5, it's kind of heavy in chrome, kind of expensive in black mount.
A logical full outfit for the S3 is a 21/25, a 35, a 50 and a 105.
EDIT: Also, for under $1,000 you can usually find an old Contax-mount Zeiss Biogon 21mm f/4.5. These are really sharp, historic lenses, the first "superwides." They are also chrome and really, really heavy. I have one. I don't carry it as often as I should because of weight.
Last edited:
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
The Voigtlander lenses are very tempting but I will try to find the Nikkors first. Are there any performance differences between older chrome and newer black Nikkors? Thanks for the good advice so far.
C
ch1
Guest
Rayt said:
Ray,
There are no newer Nikkor RF wides. They haven't been made for nearly 50 years!
The commerative S3 2000 and SP 2005 came with new 50/1.4's but there were no other focal lengths made. They were intended as "collectors items".
3.5cm's show up regularly on eBay - I recently purchased a f2.5 for a little north of USD300.
But the VC's are the only "new" Nikon wides available.
Regards,
George
VinceC
Veteran
The difference between older and newer RF Nikkors is relative.
The older chrome lenses were built from about 1950 to 1956-'57. In 56-57, partly with input from professional photogs who carried lots of lenses, Nikon switched over to the newer black barrels, which are considerably lighter. The black barrel versions were built up to about 1960, when production tapered off rapidly with the wild success of the F SLR (and RF sales fell off a cliff).
So older chrome lenses were built in the first half of the 50s and newer black lenses were built in the second half. There is no optical difference between them. Sometimes the coatings are slightly improved, which generally improves performance. But all the lenses are very flare resistant.
The only lenses newer than 1959-60 are the "Olympic" 50 that came with a special edition black 1963 S3, which essentially is the reissued S3-2000. It's a total redesign of the classic 50s lens, correcting some of the inherent oddities of the older Sonnar design. These lenses are extremely rare and valuable. You essentially have to buy a new special-edition S3 to get one (but you know that).
The 2005 special edition SP came with a reissue of the 35mm f/1.8, but with full multicoating instead of older single coating. The old lens performs fabulously, the newer one presumedly better, but you have to pony up for a $7,000 camera to get it.
The 35mm f/2.5 RF-era Nikkor uses the same formula as the Nikonos 35mm lens. It's certainly the best bang for the buck.
28mm 3.5s show up fairly regularly on ebay. They seem to go for well under $450 unless mint with caps and shades.
The older chrome lenses were built from about 1950 to 1956-'57. In 56-57, partly with input from professional photogs who carried lots of lenses, Nikon switched over to the newer black barrels, which are considerably lighter. The black barrel versions were built up to about 1960, when production tapered off rapidly with the wild success of the F SLR (and RF sales fell off a cliff).
So older chrome lenses were built in the first half of the 50s and newer black lenses were built in the second half. There is no optical difference between them. Sometimes the coatings are slightly improved, which generally improves performance. But all the lenses are very flare resistant.
The only lenses newer than 1959-60 are the "Olympic" 50 that came with a special edition black 1963 S3, which essentially is the reissued S3-2000. It's a total redesign of the classic 50s lens, correcting some of the inherent oddities of the older Sonnar design. These lenses are extremely rare and valuable. You essentially have to buy a new special-edition S3 to get one (but you know that).
The 2005 special edition SP came with a reissue of the 35mm f/1.8, but with full multicoating instead of older single coating. The old lens performs fabulously, the newer one presumedly better, but you have to pony up for a $7,000 camera to get it.
The 35mm f/2.5 RF-era Nikkor uses the same formula as the Nikonos 35mm lens. It's certainly the best bang for the buck.
28mm 3.5s show up fairly regularly on ebay. They seem to go for well under $450 unless mint with caps and shades.
Biggles
My cup runneth amok.
Great thread. I don't even use wides that much (and I don't own a single Nikon product), but I do like reading well-expressed opinions about quality kit.
Buggers. Makin' me spendy.
Buggers. Makin' me spendy.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
Thank you everyone for the very helpful responses. I'll keep an eye open for an early 35mm/2.5 as I like heavy brass lenses.
How is the 35mm/3.5? Zeiss had a 35mm/3.5 Planar for the Contax RF. Is the Nikkor based on that? How is the performance? Thanks again.
How is the 35mm/3.5? Zeiss had a 35mm/3.5 Planar for the Contax RF. Is the Nikkor based on that? How is the performance? Thanks again.
C
ch1
Guest
Biggles said:
NOTE TO ALL:
Biggles is starting to get GAS!
Real world the 21/4 and 25/4 Nikon Rangefinder Nikkors are practically impossible to find, and far far too expensive to use when you do find them. Even so the Nikkor 25/4 is a jewel of a lens, even if the finder is very mediocre. see http://cameraquest.com/254.htm. The high Nikkor prices make your only super wide vintage choice the excellent 21/4.5 Zeiss Biogon in Contax RF mount in the $900/1000 range. Beware of the Zeiss 21 VF. It sucks. Use the super and inexpensive Voigtlander 21 finder.
The black Nikon Rangefinder Nikkors are much lighter and more pleasant to shoot with then the chrome, and so are worth the extra premium. The 35/2.5 black Nikkor is easy to find, the 35/3.5 black surprisingly rare, and the 35/1.8 sought after. The problem with the Nikkor 35's to me is that they are too close to a 50, so the only 35 NRF Nikkor I ever carry is the 35/1.8 for its speed. The black 28 is harder to find and more expensive than the chrome 28, but worth looking for.
ALL of the classic Nikkor wide viewfinders are MUCH inferior to the Voigtlander viewfinders. All of the classic Nikkors are not as sharp as the modern multi-coated Voigtlander lenses of similar focal lengths, yet they do have that vintage "classic" look if that is what you are aiming for. Unfortunately the Voigtlander SC lenses are discontinued and are now on discounted closeout. Once sold out prices are sure to go up due to user demand. Other than the 50/1.4 for the S3 2000 and the 35/1.8 for the SP 2005, they are the only modern lenses ever made in Nikon Rangefinder mount.
The widest lenses EVER for NRF cameras are the Voigtlander SL 12/5.6 and 15/4.5 in Nikon F mount, usable on the classic Nikon F and Contax RF bodies via the Voigtlander FS adapter. Scale focusing, but you don't need RF focusing on lenses that wide. see http://cameraquest.com/VCSL1215.htm
My own favorite camera collectible is Nikon Rangefinder. I got started by borrowing $700 to buy two mint SP's and six lenses which unexpectedly stared me in the face from a local throwaway paper while I was having coffee in a tiny little out of the way California mountain town.
Stephen
The black Nikon Rangefinder Nikkors are much lighter and more pleasant to shoot with then the chrome, and so are worth the extra premium. The 35/2.5 black Nikkor is easy to find, the 35/3.5 black surprisingly rare, and the 35/1.8 sought after. The problem with the Nikkor 35's to me is that they are too close to a 50, so the only 35 NRF Nikkor I ever carry is the 35/1.8 for its speed. The black 28 is harder to find and more expensive than the chrome 28, but worth looking for.
ALL of the classic Nikkor wide viewfinders are MUCH inferior to the Voigtlander viewfinders. All of the classic Nikkors are not as sharp as the modern multi-coated Voigtlander lenses of similar focal lengths, yet they do have that vintage "classic" look if that is what you are aiming for. Unfortunately the Voigtlander SC lenses are discontinued and are now on discounted closeout. Once sold out prices are sure to go up due to user demand. Other than the 50/1.4 for the S3 2000 and the 35/1.8 for the SP 2005, they are the only modern lenses ever made in Nikon Rangefinder mount.
The widest lenses EVER for NRF cameras are the Voigtlander SL 12/5.6 and 15/4.5 in Nikon F mount, usable on the classic Nikon F and Contax RF bodies via the Voigtlander FS adapter. Scale focusing, but you don't need RF focusing on lenses that wide. see http://cameraquest.com/VCSL1215.htm
My own favorite camera collectible is Nikon Rangefinder. I got started by borrowing $700 to buy two mint SP's and six lenses which unexpectedly stared me in the face from a local throwaway paper while I was having coffee in a tiny little out of the way California mountain town.
Stephen
VinceC
Veteran
FYI, Stephen at Cameraquest, who posted above, has some of the Web's most comprehensive knowledge about all things Nikon RF.
A few more things to consider:
Cosina-Voigtlaender lenses would better match the more modern "look" of the multicoated new-formula Nikkor 50 that came with the S3-2000. These CV lenses benefit from half a century of lens design and coatings, etc.
The old W-Nikkor wideangle lenses are physically set up a little differently from modern standard lenses. The 35 f/2.5 and the 28/f3.5 both have their f/stop markings inside the front of the barrel, which overhangs the front glass kind of like a mini-shade. You adjust f/stops by rotating the same front ring that is used to screw on filters. In practice, you quickly get used to this, but it is different. You also have to turn the camera around to peer into the front of the lens so see the f/stop setting. You also get used to this. And, if you use the camera a lot, it's not difficult to accurately adjust aperature just by counting the clicks.
Finally, nobody's yet mentioned the old Contax Biogon 35mm f/2.8 or its ubiquitous clone, the Jupiter-12 in Kiev/Contax mount. This is one of the best former Soviet lenses and fits quite well on a Nikon S3 of any vintage. They're commonly available in black (plastic) barrels, usually for well under $100. And of course there's also the Orion 28mm F/6 lens, a scale focus marvel that's tiny, scarce and kind of expensive for what it can do (but nonetheless very sharp).
A few more things to consider:
Cosina-Voigtlaender lenses would better match the more modern "look" of the multicoated new-formula Nikkor 50 that came with the S3-2000. These CV lenses benefit from half a century of lens design and coatings, etc.
The old W-Nikkor wideangle lenses are physically set up a little differently from modern standard lenses. The 35 f/2.5 and the 28/f3.5 both have their f/stop markings inside the front of the barrel, which overhangs the front glass kind of like a mini-shade. You adjust f/stops by rotating the same front ring that is used to screw on filters. In practice, you quickly get used to this, but it is different. You also have to turn the camera around to peer into the front of the lens so see the f/stop setting. You also get used to this. And, if you use the camera a lot, it's not difficult to accurately adjust aperature just by counting the clicks.
Finally, nobody's yet mentioned the old Contax Biogon 35mm f/2.8 or its ubiquitous clone, the Jupiter-12 in Kiev/Contax mount. This is one of the best former Soviet lenses and fits quite well on a Nikon S3 of any vintage. They're commonly available in black (plastic) barrels, usually for well under $100. And of course there's also the Orion 28mm F/6 lens, a scale focus marvel that's tiny, scarce and kind of expensive for what it can do (but nonetheless very sharp).
S
Simon Larbalestier
Guest
I'm was thinking of selling my SC skopar 35/2.5 as i've just ordered an early Black Nikkor
i've used it on one trip and it's mint- with box caps and lens hood. I would like to get $220 ONO + shipping. If anyone is interested please PM or email me at
contactme@simon-larbalestier.co.uk
Simon
i've used it on one trip and it's mint- with box caps and lens hood. I would like to get $220 ONO + shipping. If anyone is interested please PM or email me at
contactme@simon-larbalestier.co.uk
Simon
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
VinceC said:
Do you mean the early version Contax Biogon 35mm f/2.8? I have a Contax IIa and the first version won't fit on it but will it fit on the S3?
VinceC
Veteran
>>Do you mean the early version Contax Biogon 35mm f/2.8? I have a Contax IIa and the first version won't fit on it but will it fit on the S3?<<
I have a Jupiter lens, which is a copy/resurrection of the early version pre-war Biogon. It's from 1960, I believe, and fits fine on all three of my Nikon RF bodies. There might be sample variation, so you might want to mount it SLOWLY. But I imagine it would work fine. There's lots of space inside an Nikon S3 in front of the shutter. Another reason to mount it SLOWLY is that Russian tolerances being what they are, the exterior mount of the lens might scratch the black paint of the S3 just outside the lens mount area.
I have a Jupiter lens, which is a copy/resurrection of the early version pre-war Biogon. It's from 1960, I believe, and fits fine on all three of my Nikon RF bodies. There might be sample variation, so you might want to mount it SLOWLY. But I imagine it would work fine. There's lots of space inside an Nikon S3 in front of the shutter. Another reason to mount it SLOWLY is that Russian tolerances being what they are, the exterior mount of the lens might scratch the black paint of the S3 just outside the lens mount area.