andrew00
Established
Hey,
My fav photographer atm is Ellen Von Unwerth whose photography, as well as being fun (and therefore all about her people skills) has two main technical types.
She has both beauty dish high contrast fashion shots, as well as more rough and grainy b+w shots that typically have a degree of motion blur.
Examples:
- http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/daphnebella/kylie-minogue-ellen-von-unwerth--6.jpg
- http://photos.bizarremag.com/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_84/bizarre_magazine_42469_7.jpg
- http://www.anneofcarversville.com/s....jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1283376298134
- http://www.taschen.com/media/images/960/teaser_ce_von_unwerth_olga_top_1211051701_id_621054.jpg
My question is - with the above two types of desired shooting in mind, would moving to Leica be a good idea for me?
I've done the DSLR thing and mirrorless cameras leave me somewhat cold, as in the process isn't a lot of fun.
So I'm looking at picking up an M8 as a way into the Leica system and if it works going forwards from there.
And was wondering if y'all felt given my goals, of the above images, that that was a decent shout? Images with a bit of soul to them.
My fav photographer atm is Ellen Von Unwerth whose photography, as well as being fun (and therefore all about her people skills) has two main technical types.
She has both beauty dish high contrast fashion shots, as well as more rough and grainy b+w shots that typically have a degree of motion blur.
Examples:
- http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/daphnebella/kylie-minogue-ellen-von-unwerth--6.jpg
- http://photos.bizarremag.com/images/front_picture_library_UK/dir_84/bizarre_magazine_42469_7.jpg
- http://www.anneofcarversville.com/s....jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1283376298134
- http://www.taschen.com/media/images/960/teaser_ce_von_unwerth_olga_top_1211051701_id_621054.jpg
My question is - with the above two types of desired shooting in mind, would moving to Leica be a good idea for me?
I've done the DSLR thing and mirrorless cameras leave me somewhat cold, as in the process isn't a lot of fun.
So I'm looking at picking up an M8 as a way into the Leica system and if it works going forwards from there.
And was wondering if y'all felt given my goals, of the above images, that that was a decent shout? Images with a bit of soul to them.
LCT
ex-newbie
Those pics could have been shot with a Leica or any other camera IMO so no problem for the M8 but you'll need a soft like Silver Efex to get some grainy look in B&W.
__--
Well-known
Andrew,
Ugh, the type of camera used isn't the determining factor of whether a photograph has soul; the photographer does. You also say, "...and mirrorless cameras leave me somewhat cold, as in the process isn't a lot of fun." There are a lot of different mirrorless cameras and it's hard for me to see why they shouldn't be fun. Again, I have to say that the issue is the photographer, you, that is, and not the camera. You're also, it seems to me, too hung up on the equipment.
The type of "high contrast fashion shots, as well as more rough and grainy b+w shots that typically have a degree of motion blur" can be done with a wide range of cameras and is not a special preserve of the M8. The key, to me, to be able to shoot like this is to have a camera that "gets out the way as much as possible". It also calls for fluidity in camera handling and in the way of seeing things. So my prescription is as follows:
1. Don't get an M8 at this stage.
2. Read Zen in the Art of Archery by Herrigel.
3. Get a Ricoh GRD3 or GRD4 and shoot without a viewingfinder, using the LCD to frame the shot losely and then look directly at the subject when pressing the shutter. Also, in addition to shooting DNGs, try the camera's "High Cotrast Mode" (shoots JPGs in this mode).
Ricoh GRD3 | ISO 400 | f/1.9
Manila
Leica M-Monochrom | Summicron-28 | ISO 3200
Kandy
—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Hysteria (download link for book project)
Ugh, the type of camera used isn't the determining factor of whether a photograph has soul; the photographer does. You also say, "...and mirrorless cameras leave me somewhat cold, as in the process isn't a lot of fun." There are a lot of different mirrorless cameras and it's hard for me to see why they shouldn't be fun. Again, I have to say that the issue is the photographer, you, that is, and not the camera. You're also, it seems to me, too hung up on the equipment.
The type of "high contrast fashion shots, as well as more rough and grainy b+w shots that typically have a degree of motion blur" can be done with a wide range of cameras and is not a special preserve of the M8. The key, to me, to be able to shoot like this is to have a camera that "gets out the way as much as possible". It also calls for fluidity in camera handling and in the way of seeing things. So my prescription is as follows:
1. Don't get an M8 at this stage.
2. Read Zen in the Art of Archery by Herrigel.
3. Get a Ricoh GRD3 or GRD4 and shoot without a viewingfinder, using the LCD to frame the shot losely and then look directly at the subject when pressing the shutter. Also, in addition to shooting DNGs, try the camera's "High Cotrast Mode" (shoots JPGs in this mode).
Ricoh GRD3 | ISO 400 | f/1.9
Manila
Leica M-Monochrom | Summicron-28 | ISO 3200
Kandy
—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Hysteria (download link for book project)
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
In your case, the best camera will be the one that doesn't leave you cold. That is obviously a criteria for you. I love my rangefinders, but they are an acquired taste. It might also leave you cold.
Why not borrow or rent one for a weekend and see if you like it?
Why not borrow or rent one for a weekend and see if you like it?
FrankS
Registered User
Only you can know for sure. It's just like asking other people if you would like _______. (Insert the name of any food that you haven't tried yet.)
Yes, then perhaps you will like the ergonomics and feel of the M.
Soul? That has nothing to do with equipment or processing.
andrew00
Established
Hey, thanks for the replies!
Perhaps I should quantify a little, whilst I'm not the most experience photographer (typically video), it's also not my first rodeo. Actually I've owned a Ricoh GRD3 for a few years now and it's been my snapshot camera for ages.
By soul specifically what I meant to say was more enquiring on if the M8/8.2 files had a certain quality to the images that is hard to discern online. I.E. The OM-D files are technically great but still look digitally and flat and don't have the same emotional context of my film shots.
From what I can tell, as I said online it's hard to know, the M8/8.2 files seem to have a more natural feel, perhaps due to the CCD with a nice colour reproduction, I don't know, hence the question.
But either way that's what I meant to imply, not that any one camera will suddenly make me 'better', just simply whether the images seemed to have character to them in a way I feel a lot of modern cameras lack, without hours of processing that is, which naturally is a skill beyond the act of photographing.
Hence why I'm pondering a) whether the M8 can technically handle the type of shots I mentioned above - i.e. whether it can produce such images, I presume no problems with pocketwizards/manual flash etc.
But also b) whether it was felt the camera had that sense of character that I feel I have to add into digital images on a computer, which is counter productive to the experience. I can't afford to shoot film alas.
Perhaps I should quantify a little, whilst I'm not the most experience photographer (typically video), it's also not my first rodeo. Actually I've owned a Ricoh GRD3 for a few years now and it's been my snapshot camera for ages.
By soul specifically what I meant to say was more enquiring on if the M8/8.2 files had a certain quality to the images that is hard to discern online. I.E. The OM-D files are technically great but still look digitally and flat and don't have the same emotional context of my film shots.
From what I can tell, as I said online it's hard to know, the M8/8.2 files seem to have a more natural feel, perhaps due to the CCD with a nice colour reproduction, I don't know, hence the question.
But either way that's what I meant to imply, not that any one camera will suddenly make me 'better', just simply whether the images seemed to have character to them in a way I feel a lot of modern cameras lack, without hours of processing that is, which naturally is a skill beyond the act of photographing.
Hence why I'm pondering a) whether the M8 can technically handle the type of shots I mentioned above - i.e. whether it can produce such images, I presume no problems with pocketwizards/manual flash etc.
But also b) whether it was felt the camera had that sense of character that I feel I have to add into digital images on a computer, which is counter productive to the experience. I can't afford to shoot film alas.
thegman
Veteran
Some people suggest CCD has a nicer look than CMOS, personally I can't tell the difference. Some people really like Foveon, I can tell the difference up close sometimes, but on prints or normal screen sizes, I likely can't.
I would suggest pretty much any modern digital camera could handle what you're looking for, and pretty much any film camera too.
I know what you mean about certain cameras leaving you cold. Just get the camera you want, never used an M8, but if you like range finders, don't mind the crop factor, and don't expect too much from it in high ISO situations, chances are it'll suit you just fine.
I would also suggest that if you can afford an M8 plus lens, you can probably afford to shoot film, unless you're planning on shooting *lots* of images.
I would suggest pretty much any modern digital camera could handle what you're looking for, and pretty much any film camera too.
I know what you mean about certain cameras leaving you cold. Just get the camera you want, never used an M8, but if you like range finders, don't mind the crop factor, and don't expect too much from it in high ISO situations, chances are it'll suit you just fine.
I would also suggest that if you can afford an M8 plus lens, you can probably afford to shoot film, unless you're planning on shooting *lots* of images.
I think this has something to do with the added depth of field from m4/3 cameras... I feel this way about P&S with small sensors too.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
What you're looking for is all rendering and lens dynamics. Whether Olympus or Leica, Nikon or Pentax, if you're not willing to put in time to learn how to render your photos, you're stuck with what the in-camera JPEG engine will do.
Some sensors are better than others. Some lenses have more character than others. Some cameras have better JPEG engines than others. But it's the photographer's eye and the work in image processing that make the biggest difference on the 'soul' of photographs.
G
leicapixie
Well-known
Ellen Von Unwerth first published shots were done with a Pentax Spotmatic.
The look of her images, now is a created look. It matters lil what camera is used! The M8 is a nice camera. It is also now encountering problems of maintenance, due to lack of major parts..Leica is not now about cameras lasting forever..The price of progress. Personally buying a Leica and a lens or two causes me to wonder how one can say "Film would be too expensive..". Film may not be as quick to use but far more economical than adding more and more newer camera bodies and up-grading computers and software. I use both and thoroughly sick of having to buy a new PC because of the introduction of Windows 8.
i shoot digital but really enjoy doing film.For starters i don't shoot zillions of images! When the roll is done, it's done. Developing is easy but scanning more difficult,but certainly can be achieved.
The look of her images, now is a created look. It matters lil what camera is used! The M8 is a nice camera. It is also now encountering problems of maintenance, due to lack of major parts..Leica is not now about cameras lasting forever..The price of progress. Personally buying a Leica and a lens or two causes me to wonder how one can say "Film would be too expensive..". Film may not be as quick to use but far more economical than adding more and more newer camera bodies and up-grading computers and software. I use both and thoroughly sick of having to buy a new PC because of the introduction of Windows 8.
i shoot digital but really enjoy doing film.For starters i don't shoot zillions of images! When the roll is done, it's done. Developing is easy but scanning more difficult,but certainly can be achieved.
IEDEI
Well-known
the M8 is a wonderful, wonderful camera. I also own a GRD-3 and I can assure you that you will NOT be dissappointed with the performance of the M8.
In my eyes, the M8 definitely has a much more organic feel to its photos than most other digital cameras, including newer Leica digital cameras. Whether you are OK with the crop factor, etc....is up to you.
I would suggest you to buy an M8 and buy one lens for it (35mm or better yet, a budget 40mm Summicron C) and get out there and shoot. If you don't like it...you can always sell it.
In what way?
IEDEI
Well-known
well i think this subjective point has been discussed in detail extensively in the past, but I've always found that B&W photography with the M8 is most satisfying for a digital camera.....all digital cameras are a bit 'over refined' as compared to film, however i think the M8 hits a sweet spot in terms of image quality and not being over refined or 'too perfect'.....hence making it more organic in many ways.
i tried out a Monochrom in December and was VERY impressed though....but alas that is out of my price range.
Clint Troy
Well-known
I only see talent in those pics. And that's a good photographer's job: to show
A nice pic.
What gear was used? That's anyone's guess.
A nice pic.
What gear was used? That's anyone's guess.