Will Mamiya ever make a Mamiya 7D?

[StoneNYC]

I didn't know where to put this, moderators feel free to move it.

So does anyone think they Mamiya will ever make a new M7 that is digital? Perhaps that fits with their current lens line?

Or does anyone know of a mount to fit on the M7 that accepts the phase one (or any other) digital back?

~Stone~ The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[kmallick]

I know that hackers have tried to fit digi backs to Mamiya 6. There is one up on eBay right now (item # 261096296055):

Even if Mamiya themselves came out with a 7D with a no-crop, sensor, I am not sure if I could afford it.

Lets enjoy the original Mamiya 7 for the beautiful negatives it produces in the meantime, while we keep dreaming!

 

[sevo]

Given that current MF digital sensors are smaller than 6x4.5, that would be rather a mismatch - they'd have to develop something smaller from scratch. And as Leica, with better marketing leverage regarding rangefinders and no medium format competence or market at all, opted for the huge S2 (that competes with the existing Mamiyas) rather than a medium format M does not really look as if marketing studies suggested that it was a smart idea to wed a medium format sensor with a rangefinder body.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

The time has passed those Digital backs. One quite interesting development is the ALPA digital body that uses Nikkor;Canon etc lenses that have a bigger image circle. I made one myself:http://www.flickr.com/photos/40146285@N08/7909074904/in/set-72157621929261184
Nice , but those digital backs are hopelessly outdated when you compare them to newest DSLR bodies. If you dream about rangefinder Digital, just buy a leica M-E

Here is the ALPA: http://www.alpa.ch/en/news/2012/alpa-12-fps-pricing.html?year=2012&num=1
The prices: Body € 6470,- canon lens mount ( others about the same) € 1570,- Hassy 39mega Digital CFV back € 11900,- Total 19.900,-
Would you rather buy a nikon or canon body with "better" sensor...at about € 3000,-

 

[jaapv]

Given that current MF digital sensors are smaller than 6x4.5, that would be rather a mismatch - they'd have to develop something smaller from scratch. And as Leica, with better marketing leverage regarding rangefinders and no medium format competence or market at all, opted for the huge S2 (that competes with the existing Mamiyas) rather than a medium format M does not really look as if marketing studies suggested that it was a smart idea to wed a medium format sensor with a rangefinder body.

Huge S2?😕 Have you ever handled one or compared it to competitors by Phase One and Hasselblad? The S2 is comparable in size to a Nikon 800 or Canon 1D series, which are 135 format cameras🙄
The only thing that is comparatively large is the lens - and that still is smaller than the competition....

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

Huge S2?😕 Have you ever handled one or compared it to competitors by Phase One and Hasselblad? The S2 is comparable in size to a Nikon 800 or Canon 1D series, which are 135 format cameras🙄
The only thing that is comparatively large is the lens - and that still is smaller than the competition....

I have used the S2 leica. Great camera, but big drawback is the very slow connection to a laptop in studio, Thsi is corrected in "S" now, and also video shooting now added. It uses both hassy V and H series lenses, with adapters. that is great if you have them already ( like I have) The only feature I miss is the Tripod shooting. you have to look from very low, if you like to do those "head on" fashion shots or have a chair from where to shoot. The AF of leica S is great...

 

[Spanik]

Given that current MF digital sensors are smaller than 6x4.5,

Tell that to the people making sensors. You can get 10x10 if you are prepared to pay for it.

 

[Markus]

I think the answer will be a clear "No". Why? Because film is sensitive to light and if film is inserted in the camera, we have no chance to see if focus is set correctly. That is why two solutions for this problem were developed: One is the rangefinder, the oder is the SLR.
Since newer sensors give us a chance, to activate them while the shutter is open and check focus or focus the lens - think of EVIL/DSLR there is no need anymore for a rangefinder oder viewefinder like in a SLR.

To build a camera today, you just need a camera and a lens - even autofocus can be realized with a sensor.

That is why i don't believe, that we will ever see a Mamiya 7D.

All the focusing mechanisms found in a rangefindercamera are expensive to devolop, to build and to maintanace while electronic circuits are once developed and build a thousend times, each a precise copy - but every single rangefinder has to be adjusted to guarantee proper operation.

 

[bwcolor]

Sure, in ten years we will have 100Mpix cameras with great low EI capability and fast, but not in a rangefinder format.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

I think the answer will be a clear "No". Why? Because film is sensitive to light and if film is inserted in the camera, we have no chance to see if focus is set correctly. That is why two solutions for this problem were developed: One is the rangefinder, the oder is the SLR.
Since newer sensors give us a chance, to activate them while the shutter is open and check focus or focus the lens - think of EVIL/DSLR there is no need anymore for a rangefinder oder viewefinder like in a SLR.

To build a camera today, you just need a camera and a lens - even autofocus can be realized with a sensor.

That is why i don't believe, that we will ever see a Mamiya 7D.

All the focusing mechanisms found in a rangefindercamera are expensive to devolop, to build and to maintanace while electronic circuits are once developed and build a thousend times, each a precise copy - but every single rangefinder has to be adjusted to guarantee proper operation.

hehe, just look at the wide digital I made myself ( a link in my previous post) No finder AT ALL... the finder is the digital back and its preview window. You can enlarge the image there to 100% so you can judge the critical focus, so focus and framing is NO issue with digital backs, it is performance/ cost ratio. as I outlined above.

 

[Markus]

I hate digital - because no manufacture of digital cameras has a glimmer of good mechanics. There is a good reason why LF-cameras like Linhof or Leicas are expensive - it is precision achieved in engineering art and not electronics. And I doubt, that Mamiya will bring a second camera next to their AFD-system and PhaseOne won't add a sensor.

 

[SakamakuAme]

In the future, when the price of 35mm full frame camera body becomes $200, someone probably would try to sell 6x7 or larger mirrorless digital camera, but it wouldn't happen in next 5 years at least.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

In the future, when the price of 35mm full frame camera body becomes $200, someone probably would try to sell 6x7 or larger mirrorless digital camera, but it wouldn't happen in next 5 years at least.

Predicting is a difficult art, especially predicting of the future...

 

[Roger Hicks]

The time has passed those Digital backs. One quite interesting development is the ALPA digital body that uses Nikkor;Canon etc lenses that have a bigger image circle. I made one myself:http://www.flickr.com/photos/40146285@N08/7909074904/in/set-72157621929261184
Nice , but those digital backs are hopelessly outdated when you compare them to newest DSLR bodies. If you dream about rangefinder Digital, just buy a leica M-E

Here is the ALPA: http://www.alpa.ch/en/news/2012/alpa-12-fps-pricing.html?year=2012&num=1
The prices: Body € 6470,- canon lens mount ( others about the same) € 1570,- Hassy 39mega Digital CFV back € 11900,- Total 19.900,-
Would you rather buy a nikon or canon body with "better" sensor...at about € 3000,-

Very wise to put 'better' in quotation marks.

Ever used an Alpa? Also, bear in mind it can be upgraded forever with new sensors, unlike a DSLR.

Ever used anything larger than 24x36 sensor?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

Very wise to put 'better' in quotation marks.

Ever used an Alpa? Also, bear in mind it can be upgraded forever with new sensors, unlike a DSLR.

Ever used anything larger than 24x36 sensor?

Cheers,

R.

Ever used anything larger that 24x36 ?? I don`t know if you care to read the preceeding posts...

 

[Roger Hicks]

Ever used anything larger that 24x36 ?? I don`t know if you care to read the preceeding posts...

Sorry: didn't see it was you with the S2.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I hate digital - because no manufacture of digital cameras has a glimmer of good mechanics. There is a good reason why LF-cameras like Linhof or Leicas are expensive - it is precision achieved in engineering art and not electronics. And I doubt, that Mamiya will bring a second camera next to their AFD-system and PhaseOne won't add a sensor.

And Alpas.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

I hate digital - because no manufacture of digital cameras has a glimmer of good mechanics.

I'm afraid that I find that statement a little harsh.

In my experience, the "mechanics" by which, I assume, you mean the moving parts, on the dSLRs I use to be as good as on any film camera. Please bear in mind that I have used something more than a hundred cameras, over the last forty five years.

I'll go further and say that the standard of mechanical engineering in current digital cameras is at least as good, at any given price point, as that found in any film camera previously made in the same class.

Modern tooling and robotics means that very tight tolerance is more easily achieved than ever before and the claim that engineering was superior in the past really does not stand up to scrutiny

 

[Markus]

Of course Alpas, and Sinars and all the others... 🙄

Maybe I used the wrong words: In the MF/LF-world we have the situation of symbiosis between excelent manufactures of cameras and manufactures of sensors. Alpa - for example - develops a camera having tight tolerances in order to be used with lenses with large image circles. If it is used with film, no problem - there is a back or casette for this, but it can also be used with digital backs.

I like this kind of symbiosis, because film requires a focusing-mechanism which makes the camera a perfect tool for taking pictures. I have been to the photokina in cologne and playing around with those cameras was fantastic!

If a manufacture decides to develop a new camera today, they develop a digital camera and drop out the focusing mechanism, because the user can use the back/display instead with its fantastic 100% lupe.

For me a display on the back of a camera like the Mamiya 7 II is no compensation for a rangefinder or a SLR-finder. I don't want to look on a display guessing if focus is set correctly.

And to come back to the topic's question: I would like to see a Mamiya 7 II Digital - with just the film innerts droped and filled with a 6x7 sensor and a good display - and the same rangefinder.
But I'm sure they won't do so, and so i think this imagined camera will not be a 7 II Digital but a whole new camera-line whithout rangefinder.

By the way: How many of us would like to see a Contax G Digital? And what happend? Sony NEX :bang: Or even better: Everyone expected a digital X-PAN and Hasselblad brought their lunar-system.

I have a Canon 5D and many lenses i purchased new had to be returned because they had decentartion. So"Modern tooling and robotics means that very tight tolerance" - is a statistical result. If there is no control, you can also get the worst piece. But i don't want to discuss this here - Mamiya is professional.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

About Alpa: The system is GREAT, it was on display in their booth in Photokina. The main thing about it is: If you have the digital back ( hassy or whatever else), you have the perspective correction lenses of Canon or Nikon that cover the whole area of digital back,
(Not all 35mm format lenses do that!!) there obviously is an idea to get the Alpa digital body. If you have to buy all that is needed ( my price calculation in previous post)
well, I would use the money to something else...