Will the M9 encourage or discourage Zeiss to make a Digital Ikon?

[Frankie]

Thanks Pavel+ for your support.

My post is about what I would have done if chairing the design committee...I have chaired a few in my professional career, often at odds with reactionary engineers. The engineers who desire continuing employment will then do homework and report back...and then a second meeting where delightful alternative solutions were often proposed.

Manufacturing "hard cost" is third-party components...CCD, LCD; "soft cost" are self-made or outsourced components. The per unit cost will be known only after market assessment is done.

[Epson had initially announced 10,000 R-D1 would be produced...remember? Elsewhere in this RFF, an inventory of camera serial numbers is taking place. My guess is: the RD1x was announced to make up the 10,000 unit manufacturing order as negotiated with Kobayashi-San.]

Manufacturing cost...perhaps become known after a few Sake bottles with Kobayashi-San? Carl Zeiss grossed >$3 billion in '09, suffering only a small loss and able to guarantee employees another year of no lay-off. They can afford a few bottles.

As far as I am concerned, "if" is no longer a question. "When" would be after Carl had decided "in or out". Announcement and mock-up day (Olympus style) has to be Photokina 2010...or way too late.

Had Cosina only earned 1/3 of the RD1 MSRP, the 10,000 unit contract would worth >$10 million. Kobayashi-San obviously had accepted that piece of business even if he was often said to "dislike digital".

All he had to do was to take a Bessa chassis, mount a D100 chip, put together or outsourced a dedicated computer [to run Epson firmware], add a 2" LCD...

[OEM camera parts flood Tokyo streets. A Nikon brand neck strap cost $25...an identical no-name version is $5, without retail packaging $2...]

Likewise in building a ZM: take a ZM body; replace the film advance mechanism with a motor [or carry on manual-wind RD1 style, but add an optional bottom-mount add-on motor drive], mount a Zeiss/Sony CCD [with anti-pixel-vignetting built-in]; package the dedicated computer, LCD...

I would accept such an order if I were Kobayashi-San. We all know he had sold lots more Voigtlander lenses because of the ZM, RD1, even to M8/9 owner who wouldn't believe or couldn't afford the 6-bit myth...especially those who didn't use super-wides.

Earning a second body of experience now on Zeiss's back is a heaven-sent opportunity...in case one day he had to make a Bessa R6d of his own, after the de rigueur "non-compete clause" in the ZMd manufacturing contract expired.

Kobayashi-San of all people knows that the 165+ million Japanese...except a few thousand die-hard artist/collectors...had wholehearted jumped into digital, but also adore Leica [my regular vacations in Japan visiting Leica specialty store/shrine gave me the insight]. Making a non-6-bit coded M-mount digital camera WILL be a guarantee hit...if only in Japan.

Since the 10,000 unit RD1 contract will soon be fulfilled...and Epson is believed to be unlikely to do an RD2...then no lingering non-compete either.

Hello, Carl! 😀

 

[slungu]

I still don't think Zeiss themselves will make a ZMd. And the Sony cooperation is also somehow not the best. Zeiss makes lenses for Canon/Nikon but they are not allowed to make those lenses also for the Sony Alpha mount. Of course, Sony would probably deliver the sensor, and Cosina could come up with the body, but putting it all together to work really well is not that easy, and it is the little details that are the ones that will annoy the end user, or not, depending at how much you refine the user interface. I would love to se a ZMd, but am still skeptical that it would be a wise decision from Zeiss to invest R&D money into a digital body.

 

[Paddy C]

For those hoping for a DZI, I think your bubble just burst.

Over at ToP on Sunday, Mike posted about the price of Leica gear (especially the M9). At the end of the post is the following note:

An alternative way of stating the same thing is, "It's time for the digital Zeiss Ikon." I could tell you why that's not going to happen, except I'm not allowed to tell you.

The following was posted on Zeiss Rumors, also on Sunday:

There will not be a digital rangefinder from Zeiss. However, a Sony EVIL（Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens）with Zeiss licensed lenses will surface around the Q2 of 2010. Your source was wrong!

I did not ever think that Zeiss would actually make a DZI. A Sony with a range of Zeiss licensed lenses is quite an interesting thought even it it isn't a rangefinder.

 

[gilpen123]

What is a sensible reason why Cosine made the RD1x for Epson again? Excess parts maybe not or is it to test the waters for similarly priced DRF in the near future? Who knows Mr. K is a businessman.

 

[Roger Hicks]

What is a sensible reason why Cosine made the RD1x for Epson again? Excess parts maybe not or is it to test the waters for similarly priced DRF in the near future? Who knows Mr. K is a businessman.

The story I heard at the time was that it was a labour of love by some of his (and Epson's) technicians, not an official product. They did such a good job that he agreed to make some. It's at least as credible a story as any other.

Mr. K. is indeed a businessman but he is passionate about film and RF cameras.

Cheers,

R.

 

[wgerrard]

What is a sensible reason why Cosine made the RD1x for Epson again? Excess parts maybe not or is it to test the waters for similarly priced DRF in the near future? Who knows Mr. K is a businessman.

Presumably because Epson paid Cosina to do it. Mr. K might be an enthusiast, but I doubt he's willing to take on charity work.

With the popularity of new formats like m4/3 and EVF's, we really should be asking if Leica will be the only company to release a DRF, and if anyone, including Leica, will ever again release a new model of a traditional 35mm film RF.

 

[sevres_babylone]

The current rumors have Zeiss coming out with an EVF camera later this year. That's probably as close to a digital Ikon as there is going to be.

 

[Paddy C]

The current rumors have Zeiss coming out with an EVF camera later this year. That's probably as close to a digital Ikon as there is going to be.

Not exactly. The rumour is a Sony camera, with Zeiss lenses.

 

[sevres_babylone]

Not exactly. The rumour is a Sony camera, with Zeiss lenses.

Thanks. I stand corrected. Although I could start my own rumour🙂