Will there be a R5 in Cosina's future?

If Cosina wants to do something, how about making a robust rangefinder that doesn't arrive out of kilter?

Otherwise, it's about as mature as it's going to get, unless they get Copal to create a shutter that isn't such a clap-trap. Nice little cameras with terrific value, but they still are a bit unrefined, considering that they're well past the start-up phase.
 
I wonder if Cosina would makes a Barnack-model camera in Bessa-styling, complete with split RF/VF, the size of Leica IIIg.

I might buy that.
 
I'd be happier if they'd make nice value price LF lenses. Something on the order of a 150/5.6 Symmar convertable or even a single focus Tessar design that has enough coverage on 4x5 for movements but doesn't kill the wallet like most modern glass does.

Now there's a non-digital fantasy for you that's even less likely LOL!

William
 
Roger Hicks said:
I say 'fantasy'.

Zeiss has repeatedly said that a digi cam is not on the cards. Of course they could be lying but I know some of the people involved and I doubt it. Nor can the Zeiss Ikon be reduced to within $100 of the CV cameras, unless they want to sell at a loss.

Making a new camera 'along the design lines of the M3 - M4' is even more of a fantasy, especially at $1499. How are they going to do it? And where? SKILLED labour, remember. Go to the Leica factory and see for yourself. As far as I recall, an MP takes 2-3 hours longer to assemble than an M9. How is your fantasy camera going to save time here?

And how is your fantasy camera better than a classic M? Film loading easier? Hardly. Only, in fact, if you are suffering from severe hardening of the categories.

This is the classic fantasists' argument of "I'll buy a Leica when they stop making Leicas," with the added fantasy of "...and reduce the price by 2/3". Does anyone REALLY think this is likely?
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IMHO the above comments are examples of Killing creativity, to which I leave you with some examples of missed opportunities when this type of thinking is allowed to prevail:

  • In January 1962, The Beatles were turned down by Decca Records because they were considered too similar to the Shadows.
  • "No one will ever use more than 640K of memory." wrongly attributed to Bill Gates
  • The first agent to whom J.K. Rowling sent Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone rejected her in little more than a day. Her second agent, Christopher Little, was turned down by 12 publishers before Bloomsbury said yes a year later.
 
wlewisiii said:
I'd be happier if they'd make nice value price LF lenses. Something on the order of a 150/5.6 Symmar convertable or even a single focus Tessar design that has enough coverage on 4x5 for movements but doesn't kill the wallet like most modern glass does.
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Hmm, I think I could get on board with this.

That said, I suspect that CV may be doing more lenses designed for smaller sensor digital cameras in the future, like the new 25/.95 for micro 4/3. This isn't a bad thing IMO - I do own a DSLR, but I rarely use it because 1) I don't like SLRs that much, and 2) the FOV I get from all of my lenses feels weird to me. If I want a fast, "normal" lens for a APS-C camera, I most likely have to buy a fast wide-angle lens designed for 35mm. Which, of course, are A LOT more expensive than a 50mm for most systems.

But with new cameras like m4/3 and the Sony NEX, along with CV releasing fixed-length lenses actually designed for these, I may be tempted to make use of digital in the future.
 
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All of the Bessas except the T could benefit from a longer RF baseline, but that would certainly compete with the ZI, which doesn't make sense from a marketing point of view.

I've said this before: bring back the Bessa T, and add a self-timer.
 
stupid leica said:
i think the next bessa should have a major redesign, to accomodate a longer EBL.
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That would do it for me.
*A longer RF base
*A VF Upgrade to include 28mm
*Maybe a deeper Eye relief to allow for eyeglass wearer's to see the 28mm Frame lines easily.
 
ZeissFan said:
If Cosina wants to do something, how about making a robust rangefinder that doesn't arrive out of kilter?.
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Along those lines, the Bessa's also have a bad reputation for shutter reliability. Just google for "voigtlander shutter jammed" to see how common the problem is.
 
ZeissFan said:
If Cosina wants to do something, how about making a robust rangefinder that doesn't arrive out of kilter?

Otherwise, it's about as mature as it's going to get, unless they get Copal to create a shutter that isn't such a clap-trap. Nice little cameras with terrific value, but they still are a bit unrefined, considering that they're well past the start-up phase.
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All three of my Bessa's have never acted up on me, and my rangefinders have never gone out of alignment. My long-term-borrowed M8 gave me more trouble than any CV product ever has.

And the most reliable cameras I've ever owned have been Nikons.

Just saying, experience is pretty subjective here. Sh*t happens. (just seems to happen a lot more to the Leica stuff I've used in my experience...bahaha)
 
Tompas said:
:)

Quite a lot of fantasies come true, didn't you notice? :)
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But most of them are not virtual...

"A fantasy" is a given name... To some people a digital Bessa or the Fuji X100 are a fantasy came true, but to other people they mean just nothing... A
Just another small digital camera used to avoid film... I guess the OP was referring more to an evolution inside their great film line... In any case, I wouldn't call R5 a digital one...

Cheers,

Juan
 
lilmsmaggie said:
Considering that we are all just "fantasizing," and some of you have offered up what they might want to see in a new camera from Cosina, let's continue on our fantasy trip and say "IF," Zeiss offered a Ikon ZM for $100 more than the Bessa RXX; would you still respond the same way?

Or lets take the fantasy one step further (not considering used camera market):
Leica sees an opportunity to increase its market share and improve its bottomline, decides to introduce a less expensive model along the design lines of the M3 - M4, but makes film loading easier just like the Zeiss and CV models, and places a MSRP of $1499 to compete with Zeiss and CV. Their Rationale: Not only can we produce a better camera offering, but we can offer it at a lower price point.
​
What say you ...
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That will happen as much as it's happened before: never.

Cheers,

Juan
 
Roger Hicks said:
lilmsmaggie said:
Considering that we are all just "fantasizing," and some of you have offered up what they might want to see in a new camera from Cosina, let's continue on our fantasy trip and say "IF," Zeiss offered a Ikon ZM for $100 more than the Bessa RXX; would you still respond the same way?

Or lets take the fantasy one step further (not considering used camera market):
Leica sees an opportunity to increase its market share and improve its bottomline, decides to introduce a less expensive model along the design lines of the M3 - M4, but makes film loading easier just like the Zeiss and CV models, and places a MSRP of $1499 to compete with Zeiss and CV. Their Rationale: Not only can we produce a better camera offering, but we can offer it at a lower price point.
​
What say you ...[/QUOTE]

I say 'fantasy'.

Zeiss has repeatedly said that a digi cam is not on the cards. Of course they could be lying but I know some of the people involved and I doubt it. Nor can the Zeiss Ikon be reduced to within $100 of the CV cameras, unless they want to sell at a loss.

Making a new camera 'along the design lines of the M3 - M4' is even more of a fantasy, especially at $1499. How are they going to do it? And where? SKILLED labour, remember. Go to the Leica factory and see for yourself. As far as I recall, an MP takes 2-3 hours longer to assemble than an M9. How is your fantasy camera going to save time here?

And how is your fantasy camera better than a classic M? Film loading easier? Hardly. Only, in fact, if you are suffering from severe hardening of the categories.

This is the classic fantasists' argument of "I'll buy a Leica when they stop making Leicas," with the added fantasy of "...and reduce the price by 2/3". Does anyone REALLY think this is likely?

Cheers,

R.
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I doubt it... The market wouldn't allow it, to anyone basically, and Leica -precisely- has never been interested in showing that behavior, but exactly in the opposite one... So, fantasy at its purest gradation...

Cheers,

Juan
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stupid leica said:
i think the next bessa should have a major redesign, to accomodate a longer EBL.
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Amen to that. One camera that you can comfortably use with a 35mm lens and super fast 50mm lens. The R2a to me is a very attractive package handicapped by it's short EBL.
 
ZeissFan said:
If Cosina wants to do something, how about making a robust rangefinder that doesn't arrive out of kilter?

Otherwise, it's about as mature as it's going to get, unless they get Copal to create a shutter that isn't such a clap-trap. Nice little cameras with terrific value, but they still are a bit unrefined, considering that they're well past the start-up phase.
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Yet it's surprising that RFF members reported more repairs needed for ZI and M7 than for R3A... Not bad for such unrefined cameras, considering ZI's and M7's refinement...

Cheers,

Juan
 
Juan Valdenebro said:
Yet it's surprising that RFF members reported more repairs needed for ZI and M7 than for R3A... Not bad for such unrefined cameras, considering ZI's and M7's refinement...

Cheers,

Juan
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I assume your source is a thread I am not remembering here at RFF?
 
shadowfox said:
I wonder if Cosina would makes a Barnack-model camera in Bessa-styling, complete with split RF/VF, the size of Leica IIIg.

I might buy that.
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I guess for price they didn't put the internal finder in the T, but for sure lots of us would buy that camera too...

Cheers,

Juan
 
stupid leica said:
i think the next bessa should have a major redesign, to accomodate a longer EBL.
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The T has longer EBL than Ms... And even with an R4M a 40 can be focused at 1.4... With my R3A I close focus my Summicron 90 wide open perfectly...

I mean, more than focus it's a composition thing to me... I would buy a special "portrait" dedicated Bessa: one with a real big window with individual, clean framelines for 75 and 90... And a bigger patch... A tele Bessa could sell well for a long period of time...

Cheers,

Juan
 
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