Hosermage
Well-known
I can't imagine paying that kind of cash for a lens where I'm going to post photo's on the internet, especially on RFF with it's limited size restriction. I'll remain quite happy with my J3 50/1.5 which I bought after seeing Raid's 50mm lens test a few years back where the J3 beat out a lot of high dollar Leica lenses.
Not to mention if you actually post images from that lens, people will more than likely not look at the image for what its worth, but instead tell you how the image isn't worth the lens.
sanmich
Veteran
If you are right, indeed, I really don't care if Leica is competing with itself in the superfluously-sharp-lens-at-stratospheric-prices domain.
My assumption is that you are wrong.
I guess that they will discontinue the current summicron.
Next the prices on all summicrons will creep up (they are pre-asph sought after versions now, did you notice?), and following, the zeiss option will too, because now that they don't have the Leica Price as a ceiling, why not?
between this policy and the positive renew of interest for RF photography, you can't make any move/purchase/upgrade without spending crazy money, and yes, it's annoying and disappointing if you like the brand and its products.
docmoore
Newbie
Go to the Leica website and watch the video of the fashion photographer
who uses one...his comment on the lateral chromatic abberations we see all the time with backlight subjects was a telling point. Imagine having to correct a couple hundred shots a day (or thousand) for that weird magenta/cyan spread behind the face of a 5K a day model......
Cheap lens for some folks....
Bob
With all due respect, this makes zero business sense. In fact, it's still on the May 10 price list and it should continue to be there for the duration.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
It'll be there till they sell out of them. Leica's business model is to be the photographic Rolex. Well, Rolex in price. Unlike digital Leicas, Rolexes do work perfectly without having to be repaired multiple times for stupid problems that don't affect Nikons and Canons (Seikos and Bulovas).
Leica has several 50mm lenses as you know. That argument implies they should stop making all except the Noctilux.
The pre-asph will stay in the lineup, to discontinue it makes zero business sense. Replace a $2200 retail sku for a $7200 retail sku? Nuts. Please don't let your disgust for expensive items cloud your thinking.
This is coming from someone who would never even considering buying a 50 Summarit, because it's too pricey, mind you.
The pre-asph will stay in the lineup, to discontinue it makes zero business sense. Replace a $2200 retail sku for a $7200 retail sku? Nuts. Please don't let your disgust for expensive items cloud your thinking.
This is coming from someone who would never even considering buying a 50 Summarit, because it's too pricey, mind you.
jonoslack
Member
I really shouldn't be posting this
I really shouldn't be posting this
Erm . . I know I shouldn't be posting this . . .I really know I shouldn't.
Nobody will agree with me, and I'll be tagged as a Leica apologist . . but what the hell, I'm going to anyway.
First
I was handed one of the prototypes of this lens to try for a couple of hours a few months ago - So, I thought, the replacement for the 50 'cron. fine.
I knew nothing of the price or the development, as far as I was concerned it was just a replacement for a very fine mid line leica lens.
But when I looked at the results I was completely knocked out - they seemed wonderful - so I did some comparisons with my 50 'lux WTF?
I was both confused and delighted, the lens seemed to be a complete darling. But I was slightly amazed that a replacement for the 'cron should be so obviously better than the 'lux!
Second
Anyway, since that time, and having spoken to people at Leica, as far as I understand it, this is Peter Karbe's really long term project (11 years!) to produce the 'perfect' lens - no expense spared - with different types of glass. The reason it is f2 is because faster lenses inevitably introduce compromises.
At the Berlin event there was a room of prints of fashion shots, maybe 60 x 40" taken with the lens - you could stand right up to them, and they were still delicious.
So - don't be misled by the modest aperture - this lens was designed from the start to be perfect - the price reflects the types of glass used, the years of development etc. I believe in it because I was knocked out by it before I understood what it was.
Nobody is obliged to pay that much money for a modest standard lens . . . . my grannie's have both passed on, and I've long since sold all available kidneys. But I want this lens . . I want it so much that I'm seriously considering selling both my 35 and 50 luxes to get it. It may be silly money, but it's not a silly lens Oh No!
Incidentally, as I understand it, this is no replacement for the current 50 'cron - which will carry on indefinitely
all the best
Jonathan Slack
I really shouldn't be posting this
Erm . . I know I shouldn't be posting this . . .I really know I shouldn't.
Nobody will agree with me, and I'll be tagged as a Leica apologist . . but what the hell, I'm going to anyway.
First
I was handed one of the prototypes of this lens to try for a couple of hours a few months ago - So, I thought, the replacement for the 50 'cron. fine.
I knew nothing of the price or the development, as far as I was concerned it was just a replacement for a very fine mid line leica lens.
But when I looked at the results I was completely knocked out - they seemed wonderful - so I did some comparisons with my 50 'lux WTF?
I was both confused and delighted, the lens seemed to be a complete darling. But I was slightly amazed that a replacement for the 'cron should be so obviously better than the 'lux!
Second
Anyway, since that time, and having spoken to people at Leica, as far as I understand it, this is Peter Karbe's really long term project (11 years!) to produce the 'perfect' lens - no expense spared - with different types of glass. The reason it is f2 is because faster lenses inevitably introduce compromises.
At the Berlin event there was a room of prints of fashion shots, maybe 60 x 40" taken with the lens - you could stand right up to them, and they were still delicious.
So - don't be misled by the modest aperture - this lens was designed from the start to be perfect - the price reflects the types of glass used, the years of development etc. I believe in it because I was knocked out by it before I understood what it was.
Nobody is obliged to pay that much money for a modest standard lens . . . . my grannie's have both passed on, and I've long since sold all available kidneys. But I want this lens . . I want it so much that I'm seriously considering selling both my 35 and 50 luxes to get it. It may be silly money, but it's not a silly lens Oh No!
Incidentally, as I understand it, this is no replacement for the current 50 'cron - which will carry on indefinitely
all the best
Jonathan Slack
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Thanks for that post, Jonathan. I have my problems with Leica's current business model but it does permit some technically unusual things to be done. A major reason why those shots looked so good, though, is likely that strobe was used, preventing motion blur. One may at that point reasonably ask what the point of using a small camera like the M really is.
In any case, I'd again encourage people to look at the prices of cine lenses before they think that this one is overpriced for what it is... and to look at what that 60 Macro Elmarit R might be able to do on a 5DIII !!
In any case, I'd again encourage people to look at the prices of cine lenses before they think that this one is overpriced for what it is... and to look at what that 60 Macro Elmarit R might be able to do on a 5DIII !!
Bear in mind, there are some pros who can and will pay for this lens in one shoot...just like they pay for those stratospheric cine lenses
jonoslack
Member
Well, yes, indeed, it was a serious production job - but I was surprised to see such nice bokeh, so close up, on such big images. . . but of course it was my original (uncoloured) impression that has been haunting me ever since! 50mm is my focal length, and I really WANT that lens :bang:
Please could you say it quite quietly (I'm looking for a 60 macro elmarit R at the moment, and I'd like it to be cheap
Quite agree about cine lenses - eye watering prices.
msbarnes
Well-known
Hey everyone, I'm graduating college soon. Do you think I should pay back my loans or get the new summicron?
I'm kidding, but their prices are just absurd.
I'm kidding, but their prices are just absurd.
cameosis
word? up!
actually, that was leitz. the current company also hasn't had the smartest of guys deciding on the name ... "leica camera" -- if they had been familiar with the previous company's history, whose name they licensed, they wouldn't have named it LEitz CAmera Camera in the first place ...
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I wonder if it comes with a free cat for making test shots?
What if you're allergic to cats? Can you get a pug or something else instead?
What if you're allergic to cats? Can you get a pug or something else instead?
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Wouldn't it be nice if Leica kept the standard 2/50 Summicron-M (V4) in production at the current price? They need a reasonably fast entry level 50, unless Andreas 'Let them eat cake' Kaufmann has decided that the plebes can putter along with a Summarit at f2.5 or spend their pennies on something used.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Personally I'd rather use the Summarit than the last pre-ASPH Summicron. And I'd rather use a ZM Planar than either of 'em.
FrozenInTime
Well-known
What's the interest rate on the loans ?
You may MAKE more money buying the lens and selling it in three years time.
jonoslack
Member
Everything I've heard suggests that's exactly what they're going to do (keep the standard sum micron in production)
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
I have absolutely no knowledge of Leica's decision making process, but one thing might suggest that they may discontinue the pre-ASPH Summicron, and that is their demonstrated lack of capacity to keep up with demand for glass over the last few years and BEFORE the introduction of this latest gem.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I'm certain that they will sell their share of the APO Cron', but I highly doubt it will be anything but a low volume item like the Noct. The price is simply too high for it to be anything else.
Let's face it. The Apo Cron' really is a technology showcase for Leica to demonstrate to the world that when it comes to lens technology, that they have the biggest one around. It's not a practical item that they expect to sell in large quantities.
Just another reason to keep the old Cron in production, but now we are talking about Leica and commonsense in the same sentence.
Let's face it. The Apo Cron' really is a technology showcase for Leica to demonstrate to the world that when it comes to lens technology, that they have the biggest one around. It's not a practical item that they expect to sell in large quantities.
Just another reason to keep the old Cron in production, but now we are talking about Leica and commonsense in the same sentence.
BobYIL
Well-known
A lens can not deliver more than what could be "handled" by the sensor it's used on.
A good lens on a 20MP sensor results in a higher resolution than what a “stratospheric” lens could do on a 10MP sensor. Physics…
General trend is toward lightning fast and accurate AF.. Even the less-than-$1000 bodies today are delivering AF features equal to what was featured by 6-times costing pro-bodies two years ago. "Manual-focus-only" lenses have questionable future, whether we like it or not. (Not any different than the present situation of the R-lenses.)
Optical engineers work with different design philosophies compared to yesterday. To cope up with complications of the shorter register distances (mirrorless) they employ different techniques than relying on pure optical solutions. To combat with CA, vignetting, distortion, aberrations and some other optical deficiencies, engineers are applying to software solutions to not “stretch” the physical limits and consequently to end up with excessive costs. This is the “smarter” design route in the digital age and the fruits of this approach is apparent: the 20/1.7 Panasonic is a great lens by all standards for $350, there are a number of lenses by Olympus as well as Fujifilm to be regarded as great.. great like the Leica lenses are.. However their prices are within the affordable limits for the majority of the camera users. (BTW, even the Leica engineers are applying the same techniques for almost all their WA lenses on the M9.)
Engineering is not defined as the art of “who would p** further” at the first rate, it’s prime goal is to employ science for the practical benefits of human beings. The Aspherical Summicron could be the greatest 50mm lens ever produced, so what? A couple of weeks later some users will start posting the RAW files of the D800E with the 50/2 Macro Planar or even the lowly 50/1.8G Nikkor costing $220.. And we will be the judge to see how a $16K set would stand against the one costing around a quarter of it.
A good lens on a 20MP sensor results in a higher resolution than what a “stratospheric” lens could do on a 10MP sensor. Physics…
General trend is toward lightning fast and accurate AF.. Even the less-than-$1000 bodies today are delivering AF features equal to what was featured by 6-times costing pro-bodies two years ago. "Manual-focus-only" lenses have questionable future, whether we like it or not. (Not any different than the present situation of the R-lenses.)
Optical engineers work with different design philosophies compared to yesterday. To cope up with complications of the shorter register distances (mirrorless) they employ different techniques than relying on pure optical solutions. To combat with CA, vignetting, distortion, aberrations and some other optical deficiencies, engineers are applying to software solutions to not “stretch” the physical limits and consequently to end up with excessive costs. This is the “smarter” design route in the digital age and the fruits of this approach is apparent: the 20/1.7 Panasonic is a great lens by all standards for $350, there are a number of lenses by Olympus as well as Fujifilm to be regarded as great.. great like the Leica lenses are.. However their prices are within the affordable limits for the majority of the camera users. (BTW, even the Leica engineers are applying the same techniques for almost all their WA lenses on the M9.)
Engineering is not defined as the art of “who would p** further” at the first rate, it’s prime goal is to employ science for the practical benefits of human beings. The Aspherical Summicron could be the greatest 50mm lens ever produced, so what? A couple of weeks later some users will start posting the RAW files of the D800E with the 50/2 Macro Planar or even the lowly 50/1.8G Nikkor costing $220.. And we will be the judge to see how a $16K set would stand against the one costing around a quarter of it.