Okay. Nikki has used Win98, WinXP, and Win7. No problems.
I installed Office 2000 on her $450 HP 17" laptop, works and runs- does everything she needs for the 7th grade.
I did help her import the HPGL graphical output from a FORTRAN program into Powerpoint for her 5th grade Science Project, using Coreldraw as an intermediary. But she did all the typing, and layout.
I installed Office 2000 on her $450 HP 17" laptop, works and runs- does everything she needs for the 7th grade.
I did help her import the HPGL graphical output from a FORTRAN program into Powerpoint for her 5th grade Science Project, using Coreldraw as an intermediary. But she did all the typing, and layout.
gdi
Veteran
Very true - if you want something that just works out of the box, a Mac is great. I always do a fresh install of Windows when I buy a PC, whether I build it (of course ) or buy it. The biggest POS I ever had was one I bought because it was cheap - $400.
BTW, does your mom know how to clean her mighty mouse?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I'm in the market for a new computer in the near future and this thread is making my head spin!
I have fairly specific use for a computer and that mainly involves post processing digital files ... my current PC is six years old at least and struggles with my D700's files so an 18 or 24 megapixel camera is out of the question for me. My son can build me a kick arse PC for bugger all that will more than fill my needs but I'm sort of drawn to a Mac ... though I'm not sure why?
I have fairly specific use for a computer and that mainly involves post processing digital files ... my current PC is six years old at least and struggles with my D700's files so an 18 or 24 megapixel camera is out of the question for me. My son can build me a kick arse PC for bugger all that will more than fill my needs but I'm sort of drawn to a Mac ... though I'm not sure why?
This is why it is great that there are many consumer options...let the market decide.
"When you’re a carpenter making a beautiful chest of drawers, you’re not going to use a piece of plywood on the back, even though it faces the wall and nobody will ever see it. You’ll know it’s there, so you’re going to use a beautiful piece of wood on the back. For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.” - S. Jobs
"When you’re a carpenter making a beautiful chest of drawers, you’re not going to use a piece of plywood on the back, even though it faces the wall and nobody will ever see it. You’ll know it’s there, so you’re going to use a beautiful piece of wood on the back. For you to sleep well at night, the aesthetic, the quality, has to be carried all the way through.” - S. Jobs
And yet, he is the person that objected to fans in the original Macs, and they caught on fire as a result.
The ASC is out of production. It was all downhill after that. Macs and PC's use the same processor. If you know how to use a PC now, you have a learning curve for the Mac. If that is not an issue, and spending more money for the same processor speed is okay, go for it.
The ASC is out of production. It was all downhill after that. Macs and PC's use the same processor. If you know how to use a PC now, you have a learning curve for the Mac. If that is not an issue, and spending more money for the same processor speed is okay, go for it.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I don't think the Airs (at least current generation) have a fan, but I could be wrong. If so, it's damn quiet, can't hear it in a silent room.
Macs had battery recalls too, if I remember. OEM suppliers are not totally under the control of the computer manufacturer.
I have owned probably 200 Macs over the years, starting in '84, none of them burned due to lack of fans, except when we were fiddling inside them with our boosted CPUs. The Powerbook 5300 is probably the laptop you are referring to, Brian. That model was a definite problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300
It was in the model lineup when Steve was at NeXT.
The Airs definitely have fans...I'm using one right now.
The Powerbook 5300 is probably the laptop you are referring to, Brian. That model was a definite problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_5300It was in the model lineup when Steve was at NeXT.
The Airs definitely have fans...I'm using one right now.
I'm thinking of the original Mac (128KBytes of memory). One of the engineers bought it as a replacement for his Lisa.
A number of people bought NEXT machines at work. All of them had the OS overwritten in one evening from an Internet attack.
I was asked to do software development for the NEXT, and just laughed.
These days- Win7, Mac, etc- after watching Nikki use a Windows machine since she was 4, I don't see how either can be very hard to learn. Very few assembly programmers these days, those of us that like it have to find a niche.
But the gap between PC, Mac, Pad, etc- seems very small to me. 4x price difference, at least with a Leica M9 I know where the money goes. Mechanical precision is expensive. Between computers, the difference between this HP and the Mac laptops that co-workers use- not much.
A number of people bought NEXT machines at work. All of them had the OS overwritten in one evening from an Internet attack.
I was asked to do software development for the NEXT, and just laughed.
These days- Win7, Mac, etc- after watching Nikki use a Windows machine since she was 4, I don't see how either can be very hard to learn. Very few assembly programmers these days, those of us that like it have to find a niche.
But the gap between PC, Mac, Pad, etc- seems very small to me. 4x price difference, at least with a Leica M9 I know where the money goes. Mechanical precision is expensive. Between computers, the difference between this HP and the Mac laptops that co-workers use- not much.
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Rogier
Rogier Willems
Apple bought NEXT in order to develop OSX.
Yes, the original Mac 128k didn't have a fan. When some got a few years old, the CRT flyback transformer would commonly fail. I fixed many. Be careful of that big a** capacitor.
Every Apple now has some NeXT in it.
Every Apple now has some NeXT in it.
GaryLH
Veteran
8008 i think it was... Could have the model number wrong... Old age bad memory --> lab course while I was in college. Forgotten all of that now. Been on big endian microprocessors since I left school including the original risc embedded CPU.
Actually hated macs originally. I only came over after osx and after I fixed my wife's xp registration problem for the third time in one year.
Windows 7 I think they got right.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
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rxmd
May contain traces of nut
I am typing this on an IBM Thinkpad X60s, one that still says IBM on it. I bought it when it came out, it is now five and a half years old. It's an ultraportable that weighs about three pounds. Back in the day I had the choice between a Mac and the IBM, and boy am I glad I chose the IBM.
It's built like a tank. I've been carrying this laptop through years of field research in six countries with -stan in their names. I've worked in archives with no insulation at -5°C in winter and +45°C in summer. Once in Tashkent the zipper of my shoulder bag failed and the laptop dropped five feet on asphalt and landed on the lower right corner with a very ugly sound. I thought "that was it", stepped aside with a feeling of quiet despair, opened the laptop and switched it on. It booted up normally, with screen and hard drive intact. That was when I found out that it was worth every penny.
I got a four-year, world-wide, next-business-day, on-site warranty with it, for $250. I need this because I work in strange countries and the price was a joke for what you get. Once when there was a problem I called IBM service from Uzbekistan and they walked me through the problem, saying that if their walkthrough didn't fix it they would send me a technician with the spare parts from Moscow to Tashkent with the next plane, for free. Once in the fourth year it had a loose keycap on the the keyboard. I called service, the next morning a technician came to my home with a replacement keyboard. He looked at the laptop and said, "Your screen backlight has gone a bit dim, would you like a new screen?" and pulled a spare screen out of his bag and gave me a new screen for free. (That was after the drop, they could just have refused to service it altogether. Many manufacturers would.)
The Thinkpad has the best laptop keyboard in the world. I prefer my keyboards from companies that have been building heavy-duty typewriters since 1935, rather than from companies that make them look backlit and pretty. I'm looking at you, Apple. In all fairness Apple used to make good keyboards back in the day; the Apple Extended Keyboard from 1987 is fantastic (I still have three) and it wasn't cheap at $180 - but for some reason they abandoned this great tradition for the sake of looking pretty.
I can download the hardware maintenance manual for the IBM for free. It's a 240-page document that contains information like the recommended torque for the body screws. I can completely tear down the laptop using only a Phillips head screwdriver. A few weeks ago the now five-year-old fan started to make some noises. I got a replacement fan and heatsink assembly, part number 41V9748, for $40. Changing it required a complete teardown of the laptop down to the motherboard. Taking apart the laptop, changing the fan and heatsink assembly and putting it together again was a 90-minute job at the kitchen table. For all practical purposes, the laptop will work forever until something like the motherboard fails.
It has a lot of little things that make me appreciate it. The screen is non-glossy, so I can work with it when I have a window in my back and see something else than whether I'm shaved or not. The keyboard is lit from above with a little LED, which has the advantage over a backlit keyboard that (a) you can build better keyboards, and (b) you can see something else with it than just the keyboard, such as handwritten field notes. I can swap the battery when I'm in the field; usually I had two with me that gave me 15 hours of work without an electrical outlet. When the old batteries started to go weak after four years or so, I could buy a new battery and just swap it in.
An Apple would have had an advantage or two. The main advantage of the Apple is OS X, which is a reasonably nice operating system. I ran OS X on the Thinkpad for about a year. It worked well. Eventually I got bored with it because there was little that made me more productive with it than I would have been on another platform. I now run Windows XP and Debian again.
Admittedly the IBM is a high-end machine and not a $600 laptop. Back in the day I paid close to $2000 all in all. That was on a student budget and I worked three months for it in order to get a machine that would get me through my PhD. It was worth every single cent of that money. But if I had chosen a $2000 Apple instead, I would have been worse off in every respect. I couldn't have written 150.000 words of final text, plus the notes that I wrote it from, plus some 25.000 lines of code for data processing on that keyboard. I'm not convinced it would have survived what happened to it. Service would have been shorter overall, and worse in the regions where I need it (I have plenty of colleagues who find out how "world wide" the Apple Care plan really is when something happens in the middle of nowhere).
I am admittedly a fan of the IBM in a way that extends to few other products. However, I'm a rather critical customer and they have deserved their place in my esteem over and over. It's my third Thinkpad, and the first new one after a used 240 and a refurbished T20. (I can still get the maintenance manuals, download drivers and find replacement components for these machines, even though they came out more than twelve years ago.)
In the high-end to high-end comparison, Apple comes out a distinct second. They are just not up to the same standard. If you want camera equivalents, the IBM is the equivalent of a Leica or a Nikon F, while an Apple would be the equivalent of an Olympus Pen F or a Fuji X100 - pretty, well-designed with ergonomics in mind, in some respect outstanding, but not up to the same sheer proven industrial-grade quality.
I'm looking for a replacement now. While I am considering Apple, it is a distinct third-rate consideration, behind a Toughbook and another Thinkpad. I'm unsure about the newer Thinkpads because I don't think Lenovo service is as outstanding as IBM service was. The MacBook Air is pretty, but that's about it. I don't trust them; I have two friends with the older 13" MacBook Airs that developed problems with broken screen hinges during the second year. I also have no experience with Panasonic world-wide service. Not an easy decision!
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gavinlg
Veteran
Exactly.
It's not about the specs, its about how the components, the build and the OS work together in harmony, and that's what apple has got NAILED.
For the price of an m8 body, you can have a 5d, a 28mm, 50mm and 85mm canon lenses. It'll be arguably more reliable, give arguably better image quality, and allow you to adapt pretty much any SLR lens ever made to it and is basically the same size.
Doesn't mean everyone buys a 5d though...
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mw_uio
Well-known
ThinkPad keyboard design is second to none and typing is a joy!
IBM did it right! I look at every other key board on notebooks and the IBM is
superior. Plus IBM had international warranties!
Mark
Quito, EC
IBM did it right! I look at every other key board on notebooks and the IBM is
superior. Plus IBM had international warranties!
Mark
Quito, EC
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Well, I do know about both. In direct comparison I much prefer the traditional keyboard. (Actually the first MacBook Pros in 2006 had a halfway decent keyboard, the newer ones are where they started to go downhill. But then I'm an arguably critical about keyboards because much of my work is centered around text and around code.
Regarding the rubber stick, I see what you mean. I also found it hard to get used to in the beginning when I first used it 12 years ago. It's the type of thing that people find terrible and confusing when they first try to copy a file on someone else's computer - a bit like the first time using a manual-exposure-only camera when you're unfamiliar with using a light meter. After the first week or so I wouldn't have gone back, it's just so much more precise and easier on the wrists because I don't have to move my hands from the keyboard to use it. For keyboard-centered users like me it's the better solution. What counts is not the first impression of "feel" for me, but the ergonomics under heavy use. Trackpads are OK and it helps to have a larger one (I think the larger Thinkpads pretty much all have one, too). But for longer desk work I would use an external trackball anyway, it's better than both.
Actually I don't care about "windows" laptops - that's just the operating system and I'd pretty much use the same operating systems on any hardware (I'm the sort of person who does run OS X on non-Apple and Windows on Apple hardware).
What I do care about is solid hardware, and I don't mean the "it doesn't creak when I try to bend it" kind of solid (I take that for granted), but the "years on the road in third world countries while getting dropped and wet and dusty" kind. I care about getting good support wherever I am, which includes places where the next company office is 2000 miles and two countries away. And I care about being able to service stuff myself with simple tools if need be. I won't get that from a $600 Windows laptop, sure; but I won't get it from the $2000 machines from some manufacturers, either. Everything is not equal at the high end.
gavinlg
Veteran
Correct, so maybe a panasonic tough book or a thinkpad for your next one. Apple doesn't really compete in the ultra durable 'tough book' style laptops, but thats not to say that their laptops aren't durable. just different markets.
Ronald M
Veteran
Please don't give me a Windows laptop. It will cost me more in time and virus prevention/cleanup and OS re-installs and driver updates to pay for a couple of MacBooks.
Why I switched to Mac.
13" book, 24 iMac, 27 iMac with 16 GB ram i7 processor and the screen calibrates color perfectly and density is between two click positions. Not a big deal.
All run photoshop without a hitch. Keep in mind, no laptop of any brand has a color calibratible screen. Forget the tech reason, but you can only get so far. I am no techie.
I use the MacBook just by depending on the color from the camera is correct. I never really have color issues with my digi Nikons anyway. Have 5 and all produce very nice color straight from the box if you stay off auto WB.
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Matus
Well-known
You guys just can not stop the fruit wars
C'mon - different systems have different strong and weak points, there is slightly different software available, the user interface is different and on top of that there are very different user needs and expectations. Differences in security are mostly defined by the abundance of the different systems on the market and by the user approach (do everything as ROOT and it may give you troubles).
Everything out there can be hacked within few minutes at most - check out the Pwn2own competitions.
We already had a guy here that worked long years with Apple and used happily Windows at home, I know a guy who had that the other way round.
I like my MacBook, my wife does NOT (I swear I did not know that when I married her) - she prefers Windows (we both worked in physics research for 7 years). We both have different reasons for our choices and have different personal preferences.
... makes me wondering that if our Head Bartender did not include the last sentence (and woke up the dragon) in his original post this thread would have been 100 posts shorter...
C'mon - different systems have different strong and weak points, there is slightly different software available, the user interface is different and on top of that there are very different user needs and expectations. Differences in security are mostly defined by the abundance of the different systems on the market and by the user approach (do everything as ROOT and it may give you troubles).
Everything out there can be hacked within few minutes at most - check out the Pwn2own competitions.
We already had a guy here that worked long years with Apple and used happily Windows at home, I know a guy who had that the other way round.
I like my MacBook, my wife does NOT (I swear I did not know that when I married her
) - she prefers Windows (we both worked in physics research for 7 years). We both have different reasons for our choices and have different personal preferences.... makes me wondering that if our Head Bartender did not include the last sentence (and woke up the dragon) in his original post this thread would have been 100 posts shorter...
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
It doesn't have to be. You usually don't calibrate the screen directly anyway, you calibrate the colour lookup table used by the graphics card. What the laptop displays for a 80-80-80 pixel may not be neutral gray, so the graphics card is made to display something else instead that does produce a neutral gray on the laptop screen. In other words, the software compensates for whatever colour bias the screen has. That's how tools like the Spyder work, and that is how colour calibration software works in general, laptop or otherwise.
Laptop screens have other disadvantages - higher directional sensitivity, narrower colour gamut - so they are the wrong tool for colour-critical work anyway. If you want colour fidelity, use a good external screen. But for quick field work, you can calibrate your workflow easily enough on a laptop monitor, too.
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