Winter Processing

R

ruben

Guest
Hi,

for some years in the past I have been processing film in every season of the year. Now after slowing down my pace, I find myself this winter quite dubitating about processing now or waiting for warmer temperatures.

Last processing I did, some two weeks ago, resulted in a lot of temperature difficulties, byassing my end result too much, in comparizon to myself. I started processing one and half centigrades over the custormary 20 with Tmax developer (which is not so much deviation), compensated my times and nevertheless the films went out not good.

I think the source of the problem was in the washing bath. I know that film cannot stand a deviation of temperatures at the washing bath beyond 4 centigrades, otherwise there is an undesirable result whose name I don't remember now, reticulation perhaps, by which film becomes very grainy.

And here the temperature variations I had went by the 8 centigrades. The thermometer all the time at place, I had to change the combinations of aperture of the "hot" and "cold" water handles along the 30 minutes to maintain it constant, and nevertheless, along these slow changes, high variations took place.

Advice please.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Suggestion 1: use a water bath (how about the bath tub?) for the chemicals and tank.

Suggestion 2: use Diafine.
 
cmedin said:
Suggestion 1: use a water bath (how about the bath tub?) for the chemicals and tank.

..............
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Ooooops, now you start to remind me some things. But what is "bath tub" ?
I don't follow.

Cheers.
Ruben
 
Bath tub == place where you take a bath. :)

Heck, you might be able to use a large sink, should hold enough water to maintain temps for a while.
 
Pitxu said:
Ruben, I can't beleive you can have temperature problems in a climate as moderate as your's. I've processed film in some pretty extreme conditions, but never encountered such problems. You must be doing something else wrong, such as using old chemicals.
When washing the film, a temperature change will only cause problems when the temperature of the water changes too rapidly, a slow and gradual change to the temperature of the wash should not produe reticulation.

Washing for 30 minutes is probably excessive. I use a simple three bath wash with moderate agitation and find it quite sufficient.
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Hi Pitxu,

Partially I do agree, partially I don't, but you are in the basic right orientation. I am doing something wrong, as this is the first winter I am processing for some years.

Two, three hours ago, I wanted to process as I felt the overall temperature of the day less cold than latelly, but when I metered the darkroom and chemicals temperatures I found them by 14 degrees. Then I backed off to write this post and rethink and remember.

Chemicals are date written controlled.

You may be right when saying
When washing the film, a temperature change will only cause problems when the temperature of the water changes too rapidly, a slow and gradual change to the temperature of the wash should not produe reticulation.

To be accurate in my description I do had the great changes in temperature for short times, until each time the variations stabilized again. So in broad lines, the temperature changes were gradual, but included small periods of high variation. Perhaps I lost dexterousity here.

Now, about the 30 minutes wash being excessive or not, I ask for your wholeheated amnesty, as I am doing it for 15 years. Not this is the mistaken variable.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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Hi cmedin,

I use my microwave and refrigerator to bring the chemicals to right temperature. I understand you are telling me I can use also a sink with water of highly controlled temperature in order refine and maintain the temperature up to the last moment before starting processing.

This may be of help since the tour from the microwave to the refrigerator is quite an ennerving one.

Are you telling something else I don't catch ?

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Yes, if you can keep your tank in the same water bath then you don't need to worry about the temp changes during processing either.
 
Well, I think that I can fairly say that during my past bad experience 2 weeks ago, I didn't concede temperature control the high importance it deserves when overall climate is adverse, or beyond 4 centigrades from the custormary 20.

Not that I didn't give attention, but not the extreme attention I will next time.

I think the mistaken factor was Patience to wait . This is my suspiction since after all the last films went not so good but not disastrous.

I will pick up cmedin advice for the sink, I will wait the necessary time for the temperatures to be dead on accurate, and I will wait some ten minutes of flowing water during which I will control the temperature, before starting the washing bath.

All these will double my overall darkroom time work, but it seems to me that winter is winter.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
where I live, summer tap water is far too warm for 68F processing. So I use whatever temp the cold water tap is at. This eliminates any possibility of temp variations during rinse, as a variable supply of hot water is not affecting the tap.

I don't know what your cold tap water temps are, but it might be worth adjusting your dev times for temp, if this is reasonable.
 
Thank you 40oz, for your advice.

It happens that I keep written very accurate forms about each dev/film/temp I did and do. But I have never moved from either the 20 centigrades or 24 for Tmax dev.

Your advice will require some testings, which I really have not enough time to do.

But your advice makes sense, nevertheless.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Hallo Ruben, when the weather is cold here (room temperature around 12 deg C) I warm all the measuring cylinders and chemicals to the right temperature in the sink, then stand everything in a big washing bowl with water that starts at about 22deg. This seems to be stable enough for the processing temperature of 20 deg because the tank is in there as well, except for when it is inverted or filled/emptied of course.

For the film-washing I have a two litre mixing jug which I get to 20 deg by mixing water from the taps, usually during the fixing time. That water is then used in the Ilford wash method (probably the same as Pitxu described), which is very economical on water and specifically doesn't need any straight out of the tap. Hence the wash is also at a pretty stable temperature. The beaker with the wetting-agent rinse is in the washing-bowl all this time and so is also at a decent temperature.

This seems to keep things stable enough to avoid problems with reticulation, as well as enabling precise control of the development time/temperature. I am very curious to know what film you were developing ? This is because I have never seen a reticulated film, so always assumed that it was something that 'modern' films are very resistant to.
 
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Ohhhh, that is certainly a 'modern' generation of film then. I did try some of the Tmax 400, of the old type, in 120 - but I went back to Ilford as it seemed easier to print (probably meaning I wasn't really putting a lot of effort in to getting exposure/dev right with the Kodak, in hindsight !).

I'd be surprised if a degree or so would make such a difference to the grain structure buid-up, but there actually are people saying the Tmax stuff is less forgiving in development than Tri-x etc, so I can't really help much it seems.

On the other hand, that J-3 of yours really is opening up the possibility of interesting use of focus in the pictures ! I have just got my first ever f1,4 standard-lens so will be trying to explore the possibilities too.
 
Ruben,

Regarding reticulation, I am pretty sure it is only a factor in the development stage of processing. Even then, I have tried experiements like freezing exposed film and developing in relatively hot water (24C) and didn't get much reticulation if any. Your developing challenges are more than likely related to some other issue - maybe incorrect mixing ratios? I know I've done that before!
 
I process in my basement which, in the winter, is at about 14ºC, and the tap water is very cold. I use a water bath to heat up the chemicals, then stabilise the water bath @ 20ºC. For wash I use the Ilford method, hence only use 3 fill cycles, rather than running water. I have had no problem using this method. It's fussy to actually do it, but it works until I get a proper darkroom setup.

To contain waterbath I use a cat litter pan ... clean of course!
 
I would agree with the suggestions to use a controlled temperature waterbath. I personally use a Jobo processor which keeps the film tanks in the bath through the processing, and controls the temperature very well.

Also, I have found that the T grain films are more sensitive to processing time and temp - try using FP4, HP5 or Tri-X and see if things don't come out a bit better controlled.
 
Ruben, As has been already mentioned earlier, I too use a washing up plastic bowl full of water at around 22 degrees, which the dev tank is kept in during devolopment, then I also use the ilford wash method of 3 or 4 cycles of wash water tank inverted 20 times between each change of water, run squeegee once down film hang up to dry, seems to work OK for me. Give it a try.
 
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