SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
can i say poop on this forum? poop.
Wise words .... or horse s**t?
- Thread starter Keith
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Rayt
Nonplayer Character
If I happen to save some rich guy's life and he expresses his gratitude by offering me a free lens, either a Cosina 35mm Skopar or a Leica Summicron I would probably make the right choice and say thanks KR for the advice.
john_s
Well-known
Doesn't KR say on his web site not to take his comments too seriously? What he craves is controversy.
MikeAUS
Well-known
And the KR Appreciation Society is now born at RFF - his site is a steaming pile ...
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
Could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship...
willie_901
Veteran
KR's existence depends on page views and click-through purchases.
Outrageousness and pseudo-controversy increases the former... which in turn increases the likelihood of the later.
Outrageousness and pseudo-controversy increases the former... which in turn increases the likelihood of the later.
ReeRay
Well-known
That's assuming you had $6,000 in the first place. If not, you've nothing to spend on travel and you've just slung your Nokton. Conversely, I've just sold my Noctilux for $8,000 and sure have enough to travel. (Only joking) 🙂
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
Was he making this statement as "The Leicaman"? If so, it's his sarcastic persona making fun of those who feel there is no other brand but Leica.
GaryLH
Veteran
Yep.. That his goal.. There is some good info mixed into the pile of s**t though. I don't go to his site very often these days.. It gets kind of old after awhile.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
In the near future, his prediction about Leica lenses increasing in value is most likely correct...but a Leica lens is not a previous metal or diamond or ruby. It has only an intrinsic worth due to gear heads/collectors/etc that are willing to pay the price for that last xx%. If that market collapses in the future, so does that so called investment.
There was a time when Leica and Zeiss lenses were much better than the competition in terms of overall quality, but these days the gap has shrunk a lot.. For me personally, I no longer c paying that premium when there are lots of lenses out there that are good enough for my needs.
The comparison is horse pucky.
Gary
There was a time when Leica and Zeiss lenses were much better than the competition in terms of overall quality, but these days the gap has shrunk a lot.. For me personally, I no longer c paying that premium when there are lots of lenses out there that are good enough for my needs.
The comparison is horse pucky.
Gary
telenous
Well-known
That statement is so over the top that I always read it as tongue-in-cheek. In fact, it is almost certainly an attempt to mock the "Leica man" (his phrase). See another example: http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/leica-man.htm .
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Steve M.
Veteran
Well, it's Ken, and he thanks you for the additional hits that his site gets from things like this. He's a genius on that end.
Say what you will, I've never owned a Leica lens that went down in price (nor a Heliar for that matter). There are quite a few lenses that are sure to go up as well, but those two are safe bets. Not that it matters to me. I just want the best lens I can afford for the work I do.
Say what you will, I've never owned a Leica lens that went down in price (nor a Heliar for that matter). There are quite a few lenses that are sure to go up as well, but those two are safe bets. Not that it matters to me. I just want the best lens I can afford for the work I do.
YYV_146
Well-known
No, but the scarcity factor remains. Lenses like the F1 Noct are expensive because there's only so many of them - smash one, and there will be one less Noctilux in the world. And Leica's support (and the nature of manual lenses) guarantees an essentially infinite product life. With Canikon someday the motor will break or the plastic parts give out, and you'll be left with an expensive paperweight...
It may be true that purely from an IQ standpoint, companies like Sigma have stepped up in a big way, but the shooting experience is still far from what Leica and, to a lesser extent, Zeiss and Voigtlander have consistently delivered. To the contrary, if you want a lens with smooth manual focus action and metal build you can choose from a number of companies such as Konica, Minolta, Pentax .etc, now it's pretty much just Leica and Zeiss.
GaryLH
Veteran
Just to make sure we are saying the same thing.. I am saying if u are buying w/ idea that they are a good investment... Then that is not going to be a good assumption if u are looking at it long term.. Short term, I can c it.
The market will bear what the end user is willing to pay for it. Everyone has their own idea of what they are willing to pay for a given quality level.
I have my fair share of Leica lenses when there was a noticeable difference between them and others. I just don't c it these days, especially considering the prices these days.
Gary
The market will bear what the end user is willing to pay for it. Everyone has their own idea of what they are willing to pay for a given quality level.
I have my fair share of Leica lenses when there was a noticeable difference between them and others. I just don't c it these days, especially considering the prices these days.
Gary
YYV_146
Well-known
No, I agree with you, they are not good "investments", but better to put your money in Leica than in Canikon, where it just depreciates away. And Leica will of course be committed to always price their new lenses above used old ones, and the new lens will in a sense define the price of the old one.
Personally I'm optimistic of Leica prices rising in the future. A lot of pent up demand for luxury products in Asia, especially China is just being released, and this will drive both new and used Leica prices up. I know a few second-hand dealers in Hong Kong, and they say business has been booming for the past 7-8 years. It's bad news for us photographers, but sadly this is what Leica has mostly become in recent years.
I use Leica mostly for the form factor, but also because the experience is still something to cherish - even with mirrorless cameras, using AF/fly by wire makes me feel detached from the action. Leica and Zeiss lenses paired with a good EVF on the other hand offers direct, total control and visibility of everything you do.
Landshark
Well-known
I don't know that Leica lenses always increase in price. There are too many that have depreciated in the last few years.
Re: Mr Rockwell would he even be aware that any of his declarations could be facetious or sarcastic.
It's not horses**t, it's all meadow muffins.
Re: Mr Rockwell would he even be aware that any of his declarations could be facetious or sarcastic.
It's not horses**t, it's all meadow muffins.
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
I would say it is somewhere between the two.
If "wise words" sits at 100 and "horse s**t" sits at 1 on a straight line scale, I would place his statement somewhere around 20-25, where I would place a fairly large percentage of Ken's proclamations.
x-ray
Veteran
Consider this, I purchased several M lenses in 1968. My used 50 summicron was $250, my 21mm f3.4 SA with finder and hood was $250. I purchased a new 35mm summilux for the outrageous price of $333. In the early 70's I bought a used 50mm f1.2 noctilux so cheap I'm not going to say but it was under $400. Now what do they sell for? Buy and use then sell and make money.
Keep them for a few years and you make money but buy and sell in a year and you lose money. It's a long term investment to make money.
Keep them for a few years and you make money but buy and sell in a year and you lose money. It's a long term investment to make money.
YYV_146
Well-known
Actually, adjusting for inflation you probably lost a bit on the SA and 50 cron. The lux should at least break even, and may net you some profit if in reasonable shape.
Of course, the 1.2 Noct is now worth an extra car...😀
froyd
Veteran
Keith,
Se posts 8, 12,and 31. They have it right. Might not meet everybody's definition of funny guy, but don't believe that his "only a fool" comment is mean in earnest. He says great things about CV lenses (see CV 21 f4) and poops on Leica when he feels like it (see ZI review).
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