Wondering how you guys/girls would handle this...

jwc57

jwc57

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In 2007, I was asked to shoot an event for my town. Our agreement was I'd waive my usual fees and the town would purchase poster-sized prints for display in the town hall.

I provided a low resolution (about 600kb, 72dpi) disc for the town's manager and mayor to review and choose images they would be interested in. The estimate was $300 per print. I never heard back from them.

I recently found out, that two of the images have appeared in promotional videos for the town and in two magazine advertisements. One magazine has a circulation of 110,000. Now, I've found out that the mayor has a large print in his personal office at a hospital, the manager has a large print in his town office, the mayor's brother has a large print in his store and two 16x20 prints are in the town's community building.

I sent an email to the manager that the images belong to me and informing him that I've seen the prints, they are not to my standards of quality and no more prints should be made and the disc should be returned. (The photos they printed from the disc are blurry, pixelated, and the colors are off.)

The town manager called me and wanted to know how we could resolve this problem, because they want to keep using the current ads and they really like the images and want to keep using them to promote the town in future advertisements etc.

The copyrights are not LoC registered, so there is no recourse for anything already printed, plus they are over the 90 day limit anyway. Normally, I would have charged for the prints, then negotiated prices for TV and magazine advertisements. But, they've already used images in magazines, videos and TV ads. A online price generator suggested a range of $400-$600.

I'm supposed to meet with the town manager. I'm having a large print made so he can see the difference between what they have printed and what a HR based print looks like.

I'm guessing just bill them for them magazine fee and price prints at the current prices? I'm not sure how to address this. I've never had this happen where a client by-passed me and used the proof disc. I don't believe they misunderstood the ownership issue, because they cropped out the logo along the bottom of the images.

Any thoughts...besides the usual... should of had a contract? (The mayor and I went to high school together and I thought he was a friend so we had a handshake agreement---never trust a politician.)

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
 
Not knowing anything else, I guess I would simply ask for the amount I believed I was owed. You could issue an order to cease and desist regardless of whether you have registered copyright, simply because you took the photos.
 
Yeah, all they can say is "no". I'm thinking I can't do anything but negotiate for future uses and anything already used is just my loss. The idea they spent $90,000 on a seven minute video, but couldn't "afford" to pay me was the final straw.
 
Next time, put a watermark in the middle of the photos on the disk. I just wonder how many of these politicians in your town ran on "values" platforms.

PF
 
I bet the mayor, the manager, and the mayor's brother and a few other people (judges, prominent attorneys in town, etc.) split about 50K and hired a videographer for 40K to do the job and charged the county 90K...damn we better change to videography and politics!

I would say hey guys give me some payola and lets redo the whole gig in better resolution! Ask for 1500 if they want to keep using the old ones...more if they want a new package...

Most of all whatever you do don't let these dickheads walk on you like that...even if the mayor is your friend...extort him even for doing this...tell him you will spill the beans!
 
If they make a bother over it you can always go to the local press. If it bleeds it leads and if it's sin it's in.
 
They actually don't believe they stole anything. In their minds, they simply accepted the samples that you gave them "so we don't have to pay him for these copies". People do that all the time with "proofs" - to them it's not thievery.

Meaning . . . I would take it easy on literally calling them "thieves", but be very clear that you expect to be paid for your time and work.
 
Next time, if ever there is a next time, use a prominent watermark and copyright the images in a timely fashion.

My personal rule is never, ever, shoot anything on spec. If someone wants me to shoot a subject or an event they can compensate me for my effort in addition to any image sales.

As for this time, bill for the image usage regardless of the prior agreement. Clearly the prior agreement has already been ignored by the city officials.
 
Who did you specifically make the deal with? Talk to that person.

Next time, no matter who the person is, get it in writing, even a simple one paragraph deal memo is better than nothing. (Not "should of", it's "should have")

(at this point in time you're better off being non-confrontational, and just try to work out some sort of compensation which may be less than you originally expected)
 
Wow, what a slimey move by them... they totally screwed you over. I would not let them off easy if you can.
 
Boris Stupak said:
Who did you specifically make the deal with? Talk to that person.

I don't suppose you did the professional thing and got the agreement in writing?

(at this point in time you're better off being non-confrontational, and just try to work out some sort of compensation which may be less than you originally expected)
Click to expand...

The mayor asked me to do this; the manager and I met to make work out the details.

I honestly can't think of shoot where we didn't have a contract or payment up front since 1999...except for this time. I failed to imagine that the town would do this.

I haven't been confrontational, I only stated through an email and by phone that their use of the photos should stop immediately. When the manager and I spoke, he seemed to understand the copyright issue, saying his sister is a photographer in New York. Of course that didn't stop them from using them and making prints.

I hate to ruin a good image with a watermark right in the middle of the photo, but I'll go back to that practice. It was something we once did, but had stopped doing based on recommendations from other photographers. To my knowledge, it wasn't a problem until now.

I guess I should add this came up only a few days before the event took place and no one knew was going to happen until the last minute. So, it was a scramble to get everything organized. Any contract would have had to be approved by the town board and they only meet once per month. In the town's, and my defense, there wasn't time to get a contract.
 
daveleo said:
They actually don't believe they stole anything. In their minds, they simply accepted the samples that you gave them "so we don't have to pay him for these copies". People do that all the time with "proofs" - to them it's not thievery.

Meaning . . . I would take it easy on literally calling them "thieves", but be very clear that you expect to be paid for your time and work.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't call them thieves even if the title fit. I have to live in this town..LOL.
 
daveleo said:
They actually don't believe they stole anything. In their minds, they simply accepted the samples that you gave them "so we don't have to pay him for these copies". People do that all the time with "proofs" - to them it's not thievery.

Meaning . . . I would take it easy on literally calling them "thieves", but be very clear that you expect to be paid for your time and work.
Click to expand...


I think there is some point here. I shot a wedding for a friends sister and made them a nice album. I also gave them a disc of low rs proofs so they could choose any prints they wanted, knowing they would need to pay a (very low mates rate) fro the prints. Next time I was in their house there were little framed prints all over the place, presumably from the proof disc and Asda (Walmart)...

I couldn't be bothered to fall out over it, but I think in your case they should pay you and you should provide proper prints and they should also pay for the rights useage. It is a public funded body after all.

You can only explain the situation an d ask them to make it good.
 
I remember a thread not to long ago, don't remember enough to find it now, that mentioned large fines like $10K for cropping out a logo on copyrighted photos. You might want to check it out.
 
People just don't respect photography anymore. The masses think it is easy and very few recognize quality.
 
I appreciate the comments. I needed reassurance I was heading in the right direction as well as an idea of what to say and not to say.

As often as we tell part-timers and those just starting out to always get a contract, this should be a lesson that you can never trust anyone completely...be it friends or government. (Especially government..LOL).
 
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