jwc57
Well-known
While I think they are pretty good photographs, I think that might be a tad bit extreme.
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
Only in the summer. Choose a suitable holiday and provide free roasting chestnuts. You'll be fondly remembered.
BLKRCAT
75% Film
If it were me, and I ran out of gasoline...
I would just send a written letter to the mayor notifying him that you are aware that the image they are using is from a proof disc and was not intended to be printed. Cite your previous email where you state exactly that. Also note that the watermark had been removed which would lead you to believe that some funny business is going on.
State you would like to be paid for use of the image in the mediums used, web, print, tv, etc. Name your price. Set a date to be paid by. Mention if you don't hear from them by a certain date you will take them to small claims. Remind them of what emails and transactions you have that can be used against them in court.
Make a copy for yourself to take to small claims if you need to.
That's what I would do anyway. I'm not sure what steps are needed in ordering a crease and desist. It seems you are reasonable and don't feel like trying to screw them over after printing and using the image everywhere.
You may want to seek legal council within your Town. Or even look into filing the claim out of your town in a place where the mayor couldn't influence the result of the hearing.
I would just send a written letter to the mayor notifying him that you are aware that the image they are using is from a proof disc and was not intended to be printed. Cite your previous email where you state exactly that. Also note that the watermark had been removed which would lead you to believe that some funny business is going on.
State you would like to be paid for use of the image in the mediums used, web, print, tv, etc. Name your price. Set a date to be paid by. Mention if you don't hear from them by a certain date you will take them to small claims. Remind them of what emails and transactions you have that can be used against them in court.
Make a copy for yourself to take to small claims if you need to.
That's what I would do anyway. I'm not sure what steps are needed in ordering a crease and desist. It seems you are reasonable and don't feel like trying to screw them over after printing and using the image everywhere.
You may want to seek legal council within your Town. Or even look into filing the claim out of your town in a place where the mayor couldn't influence the result of the hearing.
JSU
-
Has this worked well for you in the past?
Boris Stupak
Well-known
Pioneer
Veteran
Ahh. The marvels of the digital world. Everyone is a photographer and everyone is a printer.
Pioneer
Veteran
You might try this instead.
Make up prints to replace the ones that are hanging. Nice ones with your logo intact. Take those prints to each person and ask them to replace the ones that they have hanging up. Explain the potential perils of what they have done and impress on them how important your name and reputation is, just as their's should also be. Ask to exchange the good prints you have brought them for the bad ones they have hung in various places. Then ask if they would mind paying you the going fee for the advertising images.
At least that way you get some good advertising, you will likely get paid, they will hopefully be less likely to try this again to you or anyone else, and you have generated a bit of goodwill by providing a few free prints that meet your standards of quality.
And you can still live in the town.
It is not quite as spectacular as self-immolation but it has the advantage that everyone goes away happy.
Make up prints to replace the ones that are hanging. Nice ones with your logo intact. Take those prints to each person and ask them to replace the ones that they have hanging up. Explain the potential perils of what they have done and impress on them how important your name and reputation is, just as their's should also be. Ask to exchange the good prints you have brought them for the bad ones they have hung in various places. Then ask if they would mind paying you the going fee for the advertising images.
At least that way you get some good advertising, you will likely get paid, they will hopefully be less likely to try this again to you or anyone else, and you have generated a bit of goodwill by providing a few free prints that meet your standards of quality.
And you can still live in the town.
It is not quite as spectacular as self-immolation but it has the advantage that everyone goes away happy.
jwc57
Well-known
Dangit Pioneer...that runs the risk of not only making sense, but also making everyone happy.
I know what is hanging in the community building, but I'd have to guess at the size unless someone can get me in the building. I can print those two up, with my name/logo in the corner, to get the ball rolling and to show I'm willing to work with them.
I know what is hanging in the community building, but I'd have to guess at the size unless someone can get me in the building. I can print those two up, with my name/logo in the corner, to get the ball rolling and to show I'm willing to work with them.
jwc57
Well-known
Ahh. The marvels of the digital world. Everyone is a photographer and everyone is a printer.
This unfortunately is closer to the truth than we wish to admit. I mentored a high school student for a photography project who really didn't impress me at all. After graduation, she bought a D90 and immediately started her photography business. People pretty much pay her for outdoor snapshots. She charges $65 for a disc of about 20 images, edited, and with a copyright release.
Well, she may not have known any better that she was mediocre... she felt she was ready and found a niche that worked for her business wise. You don;t have to be great to be a Pro. You just have to make it your job and make money.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
This is a good counsel.
One especially memorable wisdom that was given to me (and repeated often by numerous business books) is that in business, there is always some room for negotiation that will:
1. Compensate for your loss
2. Prevent anyone from losing face
3. Open doors for future opportunities
Keep these in mind and you'll come out of this okay, if not more popular in the town than before
Throw the 'getting even' or 'victim' mentality into the trash bin, great people did that somewhere along their road to success.
jwc57
Well-known
Well, according to Facebook "Likes" she is awesome...
. She is a nice girl and she is a hairstylist and sells "Pure Romance" products, besides photography. Women are the primary buyers of portraits, newborn, engagement portraits. Her other "jobs" gives her a foot in the door before anyone else. I've thought about selling Tupperware.
defconfunk
n00b
Well, according to Facebook "Likes" she is awesome...
I've thought about selling Tupperware.
That's actually pretty savvy of her. It's a great cross promotion. It's great for her customers; who are more likely concerned with a price they find fair and working with someone they know, than they are about having high quality photos.
Just remember this whenever you feel a bit grumbly about her - you aren't competing with her. A local bicycle shop can co-exist with a Walmart. The people who buy bikes (and as an avid cyclist, I use that term loosely) from Walmart would never justify the $500 - $5000 for a bike from a proper bike shop. And the customers who expect a well engineered and smooth running bicycle would never buy a Walmart POS. They are completely different markets.
As for the original question, I think that was answered very well and I'll be curious to read how it pans out. Why burn bridges when you can build them?
jwc57
Well-known
I don't feel "grumbly" toward her at all. The reality is those photographers do affect business overall. By the time people have spent $65 with four different photographers, they are looking for the same deal with me. They might realize the difference in quality or style, but in their mind they have to justify spending $200 instead of $65. It seems more and more $65 is good enough.
I don't want to come across as cynical, but I have seen a big change in the past few years.
When I sold auto service I used to run into that. "I've already spent $300 trying to fix this car, I can't afford to spend anymore". "I got a friend that works out of his house and he never charges me this much".
I don't want to come across as cynical, but I have seen a big change in the past few years.
When I sold auto service I used to run into that. "I've already spent $300 trying to fix this car, I can't afford to spend anymore". "I got a friend that works out of his house and he never charges me this much".
jwc57
Well-known
I'll update this thread when we finally reach an agreement. I am going to have prints made as Pioneer suggested (Thanks).
TheFlyingCamera
Well-known
Don't make a bunch of prints! That's investing a lot more money of YOURS in the hopes you get a little of theirs. If you absolutely must, make ONE print to show the difference. Otherwise, you invite them to screw you a second time.
jwc57
Well-known
Thanks. I believe I'm going to print the two that are hanging in the community building. That building gets a lot of traffic, plus the Rotary Club meets there. The ones they have printed for personal decoration in their offices, I'm not. Once they see the difference, maybe they will realize there is a difference.
btgc
Veteran
Split your fee into 4x$65 - your visit, actual shoot, editing and printing. You get the deal, cst gets prints and is happy to see familiar $65
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
I would guess that something along those lines is exactly what took place behind the scenes.
If it were me, I would consult with an out of town attorney, not a local attorney who is a member of the local good ol' boy network, tell him/her your story, ask if he/she has the knowledge and experience to make this thing right (if not, ask for a referral to an attorney who does) and go from there.
If a scenario similar to what Contarama suggested did take place, an attorney asking questions and digging into it on your behalf ought to put the fear of God into them - scumbag politicians always want to keep their dirty drrds/crimes buried.
Bottom line - you were royally screwed over.
Moral of the story - Business is business. Never trust anyone, especially when politicians/cities are involved. ALWAYS copyright register your images that are involved in business transactions. ALWAYS have a specific, detailed contract written up that everyone signs and agrees to abide by. If they refuse to sign or try to weasel out of signing, WALK. They are out to screw you.
To paraphrase Gomer Pyle from the old Andy Griffith show -
TheFlyingCamera
Well-known
I still think you're channeling too much Blanche DuBois and relying on the kindness of strangers who have already proven they have none. Do not give them anything they can take advantage of.