Pioneer
Veteran
Hope it works out for you.
Wondering how you guys/girls would handle this...
- Thread starter jwc57
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Hope it works out for you.
Landshark
Well-known
In small town America the mayor/village president can wield a lot of behind the scenes influence.
I know a local contractor that did a job for the mayor's wife and never got paid for it.
When he pressed the issue, not only did he not get paid but began to stopped by local gendarmes when he went through the town in his logo'd little van.
I know a local contractor that did a job for the mayor's wife and never got paid for it.
When he pressed the issue, not only did he not get paid but began to stopped by local gendarmes when he went through the town in his logo'd little van.
jwc57
Well-known
The town manager has resigned to go to a bigger town. Now I'll have to deal with someone new.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Good grief! Thanks for the update. Insh'Allah, the new incumbent will wish to buy you off.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
68degrees
Well-known
wont they just scan the hi res prints and make copies? I wish you all the best my friend.
emraphoto
Veteran
Keep in mind that it is not you that is without a rudder minus the contract. They need to produce the contract stating a usage agreement is in place. I would be a thin hair less than polite as there has been some serious 'un-mayor like' conduct going on. How is a voting member of the community supposed to run a successful business and pay their taxes when even the mayor's office is ripping them off?
Frank Petronio
Well-known
No, you are in the right but totally wrong here.
You should have done a letter of agreement/contract upfront. It's a transaction with a government entity and you can't do that on a handshake. Anticipate their ignorance. Justify your prices and show professionalism. This is a cheap lesson.
Lesson two is cut your losses and move on, don't waste any more time, money, emotion on this.
You should have done a letter of agreement/contract upfront. It's a transaction with a government entity and you can't do that on a handshake. Anticipate their ignorance. Justify your prices and show professionalism. This is a cheap lesson.
Lesson two is cut your losses and move on, don't waste any more time, money, emotion on this.
jwc57
Well-known
I'm well aware that I'm 99% at fault for not having a contract and a contract has always been required with clients...but I went to high school with the mayor and trusted him. Until the commercials began and magazine ads began showing up, I didn't know how much they appreciated the photos. When I asked about prints in one of the town's buildings, I was told the photos were taken by and belonged to the town manager.
The reason for wanting to print the photos that are in the Rotary building is because of the poor quality of the prints. They made 16x20 prints from files that were approximately 600kb. I can't see leaving those up with my name attached to prints that are pretty much crap. If I can do that, I can at least point to them and take some pride that my work is displayed by the town.
filmtime
Member
Woah. That is really bad. What an astonishing display of disrespect and blatant theft. I suggest lawyering up immediately.
(I am not a lawyer, but I have this to say):
The legal system is designed to protect the use of your copyrighted works. You don't have to register your photos for them to be copyrighted; they were copyrighted the instant you created them.
You can sue or threaten to sue for injuction, actual damages and profits lost, as well as impounding and disposition of infringing articles:
http://asmp.org/tutorials/enforcing-your-rights.html
The only thing you can't sue for, since you didn't register within 90 days, are statutory damages and attorney's fees.
You have been intentionally taken advantage of, and your intellectual property has been stolen and used without your consent.
Do not believe even for a second that they did anything by "mistake" or "just didn't understand the business". It sickens me that the man tried to deflate the situation by pretending to sympathize with you (by talking about his photographer daughter). As you said, they willfully cropped your watermark out of the photos. This is blatant theft. They simply decided that they wanted to take your property without compensating you for it.
I encourage you speak to a lawyer as soon as possible, as any further actions or discussions you might have with the people who stole your work could affect the outcome of your case.
Absolutely do not bring them a few copies of some nice prints you made to show them what they're missing out on. They don't care. They're just playing along with it and hoping you're not smart enough to get a lawyer. They didn't "accidentally" print your photos at a low resolution because they didn't know they could have bought better copies from you. They did it willfully because they wanted to steal your work. They simply did not have enough respect for you to pay you for your property.
I also encourage you to take a very hard line against this abuse, and to pursue legal recourse aggressively. This type of abuse is all too common in this industry, and the only way it is going to stop is if we choose to stand up and assert our legal rights.
Also keep this in mind: you are seeing this from the point of view of an individual, and it probably feels personal (and it is). However, the town's management sees this from the point of view of a business. They know that they got caught, but they're probably thinking you don't know enough about the business side of things to effectively cause them any trouble. The way it works is if a company legally steps on the toes of another company, it gets solved with lawyers, end of story. Lawyers are part of business, and rest assured they have already spoken to theirs about this issue. The advice they got was probably "play dumb and eventually offer to cut him a small check, he'll go away because he doesn't know how to play the game".
You need a lawyer. Any interaction your have on a personal level with the town's management now is absolutely meaningless, and could possibly jeopardize your chances and finding legal justice. Do not make any agreements for restitution verbally or in writing. Do not quote them any figures etc.
Best of luck.
(I am not a lawyer, but I have this to say):
The legal system is designed to protect the use of your copyrighted works. You don't have to register your photos for them to be copyrighted; they were copyrighted the instant you created them.
You can sue or threaten to sue for injuction, actual damages and profits lost, as well as impounding and disposition of infringing articles:
http://asmp.org/tutorials/enforcing-your-rights.html
The only thing you can't sue for, since you didn't register within 90 days, are statutory damages and attorney's fees.
You have been intentionally taken advantage of, and your intellectual property has been stolen and used without your consent.
Do not believe even for a second that they did anything by "mistake" or "just didn't understand the business". It sickens me that the man tried to deflate the situation by pretending to sympathize with you (by talking about his photographer daughter). As you said, they willfully cropped your watermark out of the photos. This is blatant theft. They simply decided that they wanted to take your property without compensating you for it.
I encourage you speak to a lawyer as soon as possible, as any further actions or discussions you might have with the people who stole your work could affect the outcome of your case.
Absolutely do not bring them a few copies of some nice prints you made to show them what they're missing out on. They don't care. They're just playing along with it and hoping you're not smart enough to get a lawyer. They didn't "accidentally" print your photos at a low resolution because they didn't know they could have bought better copies from you. They did it willfully because they wanted to steal your work. They simply did not have enough respect for you to pay you for your property.
I also encourage you to take a very hard line against this abuse, and to pursue legal recourse aggressively. This type of abuse is all too common in this industry, and the only way it is going to stop is if we choose to stand up and assert our legal rights.
Also keep this in mind: you are seeing this from the point of view of an individual, and it probably feels personal (and it is). However, the town's management sees this from the point of view of a business. They know that they got caught, but they're probably thinking you don't know enough about the business side of things to effectively cause them any trouble. The way it works is if a company legally steps on the toes of another company, it gets solved with lawyers, end of story. Lawyers are part of business, and rest assured they have already spoken to theirs about this issue. The advice they got was probably "play dumb and eventually offer to cut him a small check, he'll go away because he doesn't know how to play the game".
You need a lawyer. Any interaction your have on a personal level with the town's management now is absolutely meaningless, and could possibly jeopardize your chances and finding legal justice. Do not make any agreements for restitution verbally or in writing. Do not quote them any figures etc.
Best of luck.
68degrees
Well-known
ya, lawyer up! crush those dirty politicians!
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
Au contraire, my good man.
The mayor in question has been conducting himself exactly like a mayor can be expected to. After all, he is a politician. Apparently being a lying, two-faced thieving scumbag is a politician's prerogative these days. 🙄
@jwc57:
You have to do what you think is best for you and your business. If I were in your situation, I would break off all contact with the mayor and his lackeys from city hall and consult an attorney. If you do not get an attorney to sort this out and hold Hizzoner's feet to the fire, you are just going to get screwed again - it's what politicians do. It's embedded in their DNA.
68degrees
Well-known
bravo noisy! truth!
Emile de Leon
Well-known
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
Addy101
Well-known
Total bs - most politicians are really trying to achieve something. Some are " lying, two-faced thieving scumbags", but most are doing their best. If you really think this about all politicians, maybe you should move to a country without politicians like Eritrea or North-Korea 🙄
jwc57
Well-known
I was in the drug store today--which is owned by the mayor's brother. There above the pharmacy counter was one of the parade photos, about an 11x14. I asked where it came from and was told it was taken by the mayor. I told them I had taken it. I was then told it was a gift from the mayor. When I mentioned I owned the rights to the image and hadn't authorized any prints from the CD--the lady told me that any time she was given a CD it was understood she could do anything she wanted with the photos. I told her only if you pay for them.
Since they haven't hired a new town manager, I'm trying to get in touch with the acting manager. At a meeting last week, I overheard the mayor say that a new town promotional video is being prepped for production this summer. I'm sending the cease and desist to the town tomorrow.
Since they haven't hired a new town manager, I'm trying to get in touch with the acting manager. At a meeting last week, I overheard the mayor say that a new town promotional video is being prepped for production this summer. I'm sending the cease and desist to the town tomorrow.
jwc57
Well-known
Received a letter today honoring my cease and desist---they will take down photos from the website and the community building here in town. They stand by the idea that no other photos were reproduced---yet I've seen the evidence in person.
jwc57
Well-known
I called this morning and left a message on the interim manager's voice mail. He called and assured me that all photos have been removed and wants me to work up pricing for prints and continued use in town promotional media. Now, I have to try to unravel this thing and what the charges should be.
It is progress though and I appreciate the ideas given here. I did as advised here and did not offer prints to replace the poor quality prints on display. The manager said they do want to purchase replacements.
It is progress though and I appreciate the ideas given here. I did as advised here and did not offer prints to replace the poor quality prints on display. The manager said they do want to purchase replacements.
Bill Clark
Veteran
The way I have conducted my business:
A retainer is paid when the contract is signed. This covers my costs just in case. This fee includes files and specific rights to use them, although I've never followed up to check as I had more profitable opportunities to spend my time.
Final payment is made at a business meeting after the gig, what ever it was, then a CD or jump drive was turned over.
That, that, that's all folks.
Simple and it worked for me.
Maybe this could help you?
A retainer is paid when the contract is signed. This covers my costs just in case. This fee includes files and specific rights to use them, although I've never followed up to check as I had more profitable opportunities to spend my time.
Final payment is made at a business meeting after the gig, what ever it was, then a CD or jump drive was turned over.
That, that, that's all folks.
Simple and it worked for me.
Maybe this could help you?
jwc57
Well-known
We're way past paying retainers. This has been a three year struggle about rights and prints for images taken seven years ago. I had given them a quote back seven years ago for prints and they never called back. I followed up a few times and gave up, thinking that the town didn't want to purchase the prints. About three years ago, the images began appearing in TV advertisements and magazine articles. Then, the mayor's office and the mayor's brother's business.
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