Other/Uncategorized woo hoo, a real ZK!

Other Screw mount bodies/lenses
dexdog

dexdog

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I bought this lens late last month on eBay, taking a chance that it was a real ZK. It had several of the earmarks of a genuine ZK, but you can only tell for sure by taking it apart. The lens arrived today, and I was pleased to see that the optical block started life as CZJ serial number 2846320, which corresponds in Thiele's book to a delivery date of January 1946. The book also notes that the lens is coated (T-Belag).
 
Very cool. First time I see pictures of the inside of a real one (for 50 that is). Do you mind sharing what's on the beauty ring ? Thanks.
 
The lens has both an adjustable ring and a shim, which I think is odd, given that the adjustable ring can be held in the desired location with the small grub screw. The shim is about the thickness of standard aluminum foil. Lastly, there are hand-scratched numbers of '676' in two places on the several parts of the inner alloy barrel. Not sure what these numbers correspond to, given that they do not match the CZJ serial number of 2846320 or the ZK serial number of 491911.

Other than being grimy and full of fossilized grease, the lens is in pretty good shape. The front element has a fair amount of fine cleaning scratches visible only when back-lit with a flashlight. The various elements also have a number of tiny internal bubbles in the glass, more that I have seen on earlier CZJ lenses made in Contax mount.

Anyway, I will have to fire up the Canon P and take the lens for a test-drive.
 
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Anyone have a suggestion for filters that fit the front of this lens? I have tried all of my 40.5mm filters, and none of them fit, althought these same filters fit just fine on my classic Contax RF lenses. The filters seem to be the correct diameter, and I suspect that the thread pitch is the problem (the inner threads on the LTM lens look closer together than on the Contax mount lenses). I have the same problem with a CZJ Sonnars in LTM with 285 series 267 series serial numbers.

I have used a 40mm filter wrapped in teflon tape, but it is not that secure, and eventually loosens and falls off.

Thanks!
 
I'll check my 49 ZK when I get home. I think it is a Schneider 40.5mm.

Some of these lenses do not have great machining, or the filter ring could have slight damage to it.

picture.php
 
Well, I felt brave this afternoon, and thought that I would further take apart my ZK lens... I found some parts numbers on the inside, nicely engraved and filled with white paint. The numbers do not match as they do on one of my LTM Sonnars, or on my 1950 manufacture J-12 (which could probably be called a BK just as easily, given that it is mostly Zeiss parts and glass).

Pictures attached.

Also, I went hunting through my bin of miscellaneous filters and other parts, and found a no-name skylight filter that screwed onto the lens with no problem. This is the only one that fit out of all the 40.5mm filters that I tried.
 
I checked mine- and a Tiffen 40.5mm is on it. The threads did sem "pickier" than my Zeiss Sonnars and J-3's. The numbers on your barrel are 3-digit, I've seen them at 4-digits. I'm thinking that the "seconds" that went unused by Zeiss ended up in the ZK's.
 
I tried 11 filters, and only one fit. No idea where the filter came from, but probably 1960s Japanese make from the look of it- looks very much like the Walz brand. While this ZK lens has different parts numbers of 3 digits, my 1950 J-12 in LTM has 3 matching parts numbers of 4 digits, 1047.
 
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Most recent eBay purchase, another 1949 5cm/1.5 ZK lens. The 'new' lens is in much better cosmetic condition than the first one, and looks like it has hardly been used. The new ZK has a Soviet serial number 136 digits higher than my first one, but has internal CZJ serial numbers that are 66 digits lower; both ZKs have CZJ lens elements from the same batch, according to Thiele. Construction between the two lenses is identical. Like my first ZK, this one exhibits the white-painted CZJ parts numbers stamped in the three places on the internal barrel elements (number is 197), as well as hand-scratched numbers of 696 in two other places.

I have not tried the lens with a film camera yet (only on NEX-5), but I think that this lens has better resolution than any of the other M39 CZJ or ZK lenses that I have- it's a beauty!. Lens registration appears to be pretty good too, because the lens focuses to the same point on the NEX-5 and my trusty Canon P. Lastly, all of my 40.5mm filters and hoods screw on without any problems, so the front threads are in good shape, too.
 
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A couple of test shots with ZK 492047. No sharpening applied, but I did adjust the contrast moderately. I took these pictures with a Canon P, and the lens is apparently adjusted to the leica standard. Focus appears to be spot-on, center of focus is the center of the big hibiscus. Fujicolor 200, 1/1000 at f 1.5. Yeah, I have not cleaned the image up, so it exhibits dust from the local one-hour lab at neighborhood Target.

Anyway, pretty impressive performance for a 62 year old war reparations lens, detail of the pollen grains is very good. Amazing that no one messed with it throughout the decades. The lens looks like it has not seen much use. The lens came packed in the black bakelite KMZ box, wrapped in crinkly yellow paper padded with cotton balls. Makes me wonder if it is new old stock.
 
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dexdog said:
A couple of test shots with ZK 492047. No sharpening applied, but I did adjust the contrast moderately. I took these pictures with a Canon P, and the lens is apparently adjusted to the leica standard. Focus appears to be spot-on, center of focus is the center of the big hibiscus. Fujicolor 200, 1/1000 at f 1.5. Yeah, I have not cleaned the image up, so it exhibits dust from the local one-hour lab at neighborhood Target.

Anyway, pretty impressive performance for a 62 year old war reparations lens, detail of the pollen grains is very good. Amazing that no one messed with it throughout the decades. The lens looks like it has not seen much use. The lens came packed in the black bakelite KMZ box, wrapped in crinkly yellow paper padded with cotton balls. Makes me wonder if it is new old stock.
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Dex,

my 1951 Jupiter-11 with its 1945 CZJ 85/2.0 optical cell was definitely new old stock, and was packed likewise. The crinkly paper looks like a weird inbetween mix from leaf paper and cellofane plastic. It is definitely paper though.

Maybe this helps?!


Cool find, this lens! I almost get the itch to go out looking for one too, but have promised myself to stick with the 50/1.5 Sonnar that I own.
 
I quote from Minoru Sasaki's "Contax to Kheb" a definitive work:

"Out of 3K's mounted on Kievs inspected for this reprt, four 3K's had some numbers inscribed inside the lens mount, which seem to have served as identification marks at the factory Carl Zeiss......It seems safe enough to assert that these are genuine Carl Zeiss lenses, which are judged from their numbers to have been stocked as components or semi-finished goods as Zeiss factory when the war was over. This assertion is valid , however, only as far as the barrels (on which the engravings are done) are concerned, while on the other hand, the glass elements may or may not be genuine Zeiss"

While it is pleasant to think one has a re-badged Zeiss lens there is absolutely no way of knowing what you have even if the barrel is all or part Zeiss.
 
dexdog said:
I bought this lens late last month on eBay, taking a chance that it was a real ZK. It had several of the earmarks of a genuine ZK, but you can only tell for sure by taking it apart. The lens arrived today, and I was pleased to see that the optical block started life as CZJ serial number 2846320, which corresponds in Thiele's book to a delivery date of January 1946. The book also notes that the lens is coated (T-Belag).
Click to expand...

OK, I'll bite.

what is a "Genuine ZK" ?

what is a fake ZK ?

Stephen
 
Outfitter you are right when it comes to the barrels and to the unfitted elements of a lens. However, elements that were already set into an optical cell had the last digits of their serial number stamped into the optical housing, while later Jupiter lenses had the last digits of the serial number simply scratched into the optical element housing.

Stephen, a genuine ZK lens is a Russian made lens with the ZK mark on the front (Zonnar Krasnogorsk), and a Zeiss made optical cell. A fake ZK has the ZK marking on the front but the cell has scratched numbers like a Jupiter cell. So, likely a later Jupiter with a 1948 or 1949 ZK front ring fitted.
In 1950, the front rings were changed and the ZK mark disappeared.
 
buzzardkid said:
Outfitter you are right when it comes to the barrels and to the unfitted elements of a lens. However, elements that were already set into an optical cell had the last digits of their serial number stamped into the optical housing, while later Jupiter lenses had the last digits of the serial number simply scratched into the optical element housing.
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One would assume that, but the lens numbers were assigned when the production program was fixed so there was about a year (and sometimes 3 or 4 years) until the actual lenses left the factory. Clearly the numbers were stamped onto the optical cell part before the lens was inserted otherwise there would be a serious risk of shattering the element. Therefore it safe to assume that numbered empty cells were lying around and completed matched front and rear lens groups probably also lying around when the parts bins were scooped up by the Soviets. The point being it is impossible to tell what you have and numbered cells are no guarantee of virtue.
 
CameraQuest said:
OK, I'll bite. what is a "Genuine ZK" ? what is a fake ZK ?
Stephen
Click to expand...

Just an attempt to distinguish between the eBay lenses sold as ZKs that are clearly chrome J-3s fitted out with new beauty rings that have a serial number of 1947-1950. I have one such lens sold as a 1948 ZK that Brian Sweeney confirmed is an early 1960s J-3 manufactured by the ZOMZ factory. No internal Zeiss serial numbers or other characteristic markings of a "genuine" ZK lens.

There are several likely "fake" ZKs up for sale now on eBay, usually given away by the lack of two screws on the focus ring, different finish and different engraving. Sometimes you can even see the characteristic blue-purple lens coatng typical of Jupiters, but very different from the coating seen on the lenses made with Zeiss lens elements.
 
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