archeophoto
I love 1950's quality
Hi all,
I really enjoy working on my own cameras. So far I got pretty good in fixing up serveral old folders. I restored a Mamiya six, Voigtlander Perkeos and some Zeiss Ikontas.
My ultimate goal is to work on my Rolleis ('Cords and 'Flexes) as I enjoy collecting and shooting them.
I'm confident I'm ready for the next step and try a Rolleicord to start. I know even the 'Cords will be much more difficult to work on compared to my folders.
I have pretty much all the tools to succesfully work on a folder.
Does anybody on here work on their own Rolleis? Do I need any special tools specific to Rolleis I might not be aware of?
Maybe you can describe your own learning curve and what difficulties you ran into?
Thanks!
Herbert
I really enjoy working on my own cameras. So far I got pretty good in fixing up serveral old folders. I restored a Mamiya six, Voigtlander Perkeos and some Zeiss Ikontas.
My ultimate goal is to work on my Rolleis ('Cords and 'Flexes) as I enjoy collecting and shooting them.
I'm confident I'm ready for the next step and try a Rolleicord to start. I know even the 'Cords will be much more difficult to work on compared to my folders.
I have pretty much all the tools to succesfully work on a folder.
Does anybody on here work on their own Rolleis? Do I need any special tools specific to Rolleis I might not be aware of?
Maybe you can describe your own learning curve and what difficulties you ran into?
Thanks!
Herbert
OK, I'll bite.
This is very long post, indeed, sorry. But I have tried to be pertinent to your thread topic, and to provide comments based on my own actual experiences. I hope they're helpful to you.
I've bought several Rolleis over the last twelve months or so which needed some finessing. The first was a Cord V for myself. This was followed by another for a friend's sister, an immaculate V, (the nicest I have ever seen, actually). When my friend wanted one for himself—having played with his sister's Cord V, and borrowed my own a few times—I sold it to him, and acquired a Va for myself. He's delighted with the V, incidentally, and runs a film through it every week or two (as he should!).
I always try to find the cleanest, straightest, example I can possible with sound optics. Shutter problems are not usually insurmountable, because the quality of the Synchro Compur units is so good. Nearly everything inside them is plated for durability, and longevity. But bent out of shape TLRs, or one with damaged optics, are both difficult, time-consuming, and potentially expensive to properly rectify. If an otherwise really nice example turns up on the big auction site, with, for instance, sticking slow speeds, this is gold. It will deter a lot of punters, and slow down the bidding, so these can sometimes be acquired for great prices (not so great, lately, of course!). It is not hard to reach the shutter, and generally, it is only sticking slow speed or self timer escapements, which will make the shutters malfunction. Well, that or some evaporated lube residue on the actual shutter and aperture blades, themselves. None of which, is terribly hard to rectify.
If I've counted right, to date I've acquired nine Rollei TLRs in the last twelve months, some of which await the time for me to tackle them—two Flexes and seven Cords (all either V, Va or Vb models). I would caution you to be studious when investigating any prospects. Either my luck is getting worse, or the quality of offerings available recently, is deteriorating. I suspect the latter, as uneducated, incompetent, or unscrupulous (or all of the above!) sellers rush to cash in on recent Rollei TLR prices, without due diligence in either their listing descriptions, or their inspection processes.
Several recent examples, described as 'perfect', 'mint mechanical condition', etc. have been anything but. Bent backs, either from being dropped, or from rough tripod handling; lens plates that are out of alignment, and/or worn focus mounts; or shutters that were meant to have good speeds, but didn't; have all been issues for me. The last is not a big deal for me to remedy, but is not the point, if the seller says they function! (It is a bigger deal for them when I open a Paypal case, which I have done in several instances, as, having become fed up with this type of vendor lately, I am less forgiving of a supposedly-competent camera reseller's oversights, than I once was. . .)
On Rolleicords:
I am a fan of the V models in particular. Because I do a lot of tripod-based captures, I find a self timer to be of great benefit, and the V was the first model to feature one. I try to have a cable release on me most of the time, but for those occasions when I've left it home, or just couldn't be bothered attaching it, the timer enables a vibration-free exposure for best image sharpness. (The extremely smooth lens shutters give you the best opportunity for this sharpness at any time, of course.)
I also find that the 'soft coupling' EV system of the V makes it simpler to adjust shutter or aperture separately, and easier to live with, than the later models such as my Va Type I, which really does need two hands to set exposure. Also, the price of the V is keen, especially compared to Eg.a Vb. III and IV models are cheaper but I personally feel the V is the sweet spot in regard to price verses features (others will disagree—naturally!). So if you don't absolutely need to mount a prism, or change screens, personally, I recommend the Cord V for the above reasons—but any Xenar-equipped Rolleicord is a wonderful contrivance indeed.
You are absolutely on the right track to start off with a Cord, as opposed to a Flex. They are built to the same high standards, but they lack the auto film advance and double-roller system (which all the Flexes bar the oldest, or the half-Flex, half-Cord, T models feature) and which introduces substantial additional complexity. Not that the Flex film advance is a weak point per se, but if, for instance, you need to adjust or lubricate the focus system, there are many more components that have to be removed for access to the wind side focus eccentrics of a Flex, which makes it a quantum leap in complexity compared to a Cord.
To do a basic shutter service it will help if you have the following:
Other items that may not always be needed, but which can be handy to have on hand sometimes, include:
On the topic of record images: when assessing listing images and inspecting your camera on its arrival, take digital photographs of the parcel and its packaging as received, to establish condition, for possible use in the event of damage to the camera, insurance claims, settling disputes with the seller, etc. Sometimes, proof that a parcel is undamaged, can be just as essential as proof that it is not. And keep a scrap film on hand for testing the film advance, spacing and double exposure interlock.
Inspecting a Rolleicord (and to some extent, a Flex, also)
Closely examine the bayonet plate in relation to the body. You want to see even, consistent clearance between the bottom of the plate and the camera body. The bayonet plate is a separate component to the actual lens mounting plate beneath it, and may be adjusted independently. So, a bayonet plate in sound alignment, does not automatically guarantee that the lens plane is also perfectly aligned; or vice-versa. However, if the camera is dropped badly, the bayonet plate often takes the hit, and transfers impact forces to the lens mount and focus followers, so this is a problem you do not want to have to deal with, if at all possible. Hence, a straight, aligned bayonet plate is a good start. (For these reasons, always store or carry a Rollei with the focus racked in to infinity. It will not guarantee that damage will not result if the camera takes a hit, however retracting it helps to reduce the vulnerability of the focus mount and the focus components.)
The best examples should not only have even clearance all around the bayonet plate; they should also slide smoothly, and evenly, on both sides, all the way from infinity to close range and back. Wind the focus out from infinity; grasp the bayonet plate with fingers and palm; and gently, but firmly, see if you can induce any play or wobble in the lens assembly. A camera that has done a lot of work, taken a hit, or been poorly assembled will often have some slop in the focus. Naturally, focus suffers. The best examples will resist movement in any direction, at any focal range. At the risk of stating the obvious, do not use unreasonable force, of course!
Backs are another weak point. The camera should sit perfectly level on all four feet when placed on a flat surface. As you close the camera back, a gentle push should see it 'snap' into place against the camera body with perfect, even clearance. If the back either does not want to stay in the closed position without the latch engaged, or, does not align perfectly without using the latch, there is a problem—Rollei fit and alignment is perfect.
To examine the back more closely:
Remove it from the camera, and place it on a level surface with the tripod mount uppermost. It should sit perfectly aligned on its upper and lower edges without undue clearance, nor should not be possible to rock it in any plane. Lastly, with the back installed and latched, have a careful look at the clearance between the lower corners of the back and the camera body. This should be tight, and perfectly even all through the corner areas.
Some sellers straighten bent backs (with varying degrees of success) however it is rarely possible to get them factory-perfect again. The corner alignment often betrays poor attempts at repair; examine listing images critically for this problem (if the seller gives you a look, that is...). I have had some bad luck with backs, recently. With the above information in mind, one listing featured the photographs I could have used to avoid the problem had I scrutinised them properly—benefit from my mistake! Good second hand replacement backs are not easy or cheap to find.
The above comments are based on my own experiences over the last year or so, having learnt many of these lessons the hard way. I've had no formal training in camera repair; and claim no particular expertise or special ability. I'm simply an enthusiastic owner and user of Rollei TLRs, who is still in awe of their superlative quality and build. Feel free to disregard any of the above if it does not work for you—as always—YMMV.
You may, however, expect that some naysayers might warn you away from repairing your own Rollei. Whilst it is their prerogative to tell you that—don't let their lack of confidence, persistence or negativity, persuade you that it is an impossible task, if you have the right mindset, physical dexterity, and you are aware of your own limitations, not theirs. Only you can decide this. I have only three particular skills as a repairer: I try to find the best candidates for me to improve; I rarely, if ever, break things; and I persist, persist, persist, until I've got the camera working properly.
Having revived several Cords now with excellent results, I have 2.8C & 2.8D Flexes waiting for me to rejuvenate. The learning curve begins all over again. At least one of them requires adjustment and re-alignment of the focus and lens board and, of course, resetting of both lens focus. I expect this to take me some time to rectify satisfactorily, however I'll get there, because I just persevere, until I do and personally, I believe this is the key to success. Bon chance.
Regards,
Brett
This is very long post, indeed, sorry. But I have tried to be pertinent to your thread topic, and to provide comments based on my own actual experiences. I hope they're helpful to you.
I've bought several Rolleis over the last twelve months or so which needed some finessing. The first was a Cord V for myself. This was followed by another for a friend's sister, an immaculate V, (the nicest I have ever seen, actually). When my friend wanted one for himself—having played with his sister's Cord V, and borrowed my own a few times—I sold it to him, and acquired a Va for myself. He's delighted with the V, incidentally, and runs a film through it every week or two (as he should!).
I always try to find the cleanest, straightest, example I can possible with sound optics. Shutter problems are not usually insurmountable, because the quality of the Synchro Compur units is so good. Nearly everything inside them is plated for durability, and longevity. But bent out of shape TLRs, or one with damaged optics, are both difficult, time-consuming, and potentially expensive to properly rectify. If an otherwise really nice example turns up on the big auction site, with, for instance, sticking slow speeds, this is gold. It will deter a lot of punters, and slow down the bidding, so these can sometimes be acquired for great prices (not so great, lately, of course!). It is not hard to reach the shutter, and generally, it is only sticking slow speed or self timer escapements, which will make the shutters malfunction. Well, that or some evaporated lube residue on the actual shutter and aperture blades, themselves. None of which, is terribly hard to rectify.
If I've counted right, to date I've acquired nine Rollei TLRs in the last twelve months, some of which await the time for me to tackle them—two Flexes and seven Cords (all either V, Va or Vb models). I would caution you to be studious when investigating any prospects. Either my luck is getting worse, or the quality of offerings available recently, is deteriorating. I suspect the latter, as uneducated, incompetent, or unscrupulous (or all of the above!) sellers rush to cash in on recent Rollei TLR prices, without due diligence in either their listing descriptions, or their inspection processes.
Several recent examples, described as 'perfect', 'mint mechanical condition', etc. have been anything but. Bent backs, either from being dropped, or from rough tripod handling; lens plates that are out of alignment, and/or worn focus mounts; or shutters that were meant to have good speeds, but didn't; have all been issues for me. The last is not a big deal for me to remedy, but is not the point, if the seller says they function! (It is a bigger deal for them when I open a Paypal case, which I have done in several instances, as, having become fed up with this type of vendor lately, I am less forgiving of a supposedly-competent camera reseller's oversights, than I once was. . .)
On Rolleicords:
I am a fan of the V models in particular. Because I do a lot of tripod-based captures, I find a self timer to be of great benefit, and the V was the first model to feature one. I try to have a cable release on me most of the time, but for those occasions when I've left it home, or just couldn't be bothered attaching it, the timer enables a vibration-free exposure for best image sharpness. (The extremely smooth lens shutters give you the best opportunity for this sharpness at any time, of course.)
I also find that the 'soft coupling' EV system of the V makes it simpler to adjust shutter or aperture separately, and easier to live with, than the later models such as my Va Type I, which really does need two hands to set exposure. Also, the price of the V is keen, especially compared to Eg.a Vb. III and IV models are cheaper but I personally feel the V is the sweet spot in regard to price verses features (others will disagree—naturally!). So if you don't absolutely need to mount a prism, or change screens, personally, I recommend the Cord V for the above reasons—but any Xenar-equipped Rolleicord is a wonderful contrivance indeed.
You are absolutely on the right track to start off with a Cord, as opposed to a Flex. They are built to the same high standards, but they lack the auto film advance and double-roller system (which all the Flexes bar the oldest, or the half-Flex, half-Cord, T models feature) and which introduces substantial additional complexity. Not that the Flex film advance is a weak point per se, but if, for instance, you need to adjust or lubricate the focus system, there are many more components that have to be removed for access to the wind side focus eccentrics of a Flex, which makes it a quantum leap in complexity compared to a Cord.
To do a basic shutter service it will help if you have the following:
- a good set of jewellers screwdrivers;
- a few pairs of quality tweezers (a friend gives me single use disposable medical grade tweezers, which, after sterilising them, are wonderful for camera work);
- a quality pair of fine-tipped pliers, or perhaps narrow jaw vice grips (for unscrewing the knob on the cocking lever);
- a lens spanner for removing the rear lens group;
- some lighter fluid;
- and a suitable oil for the escapements (I use Moebius synthetic super fine watch oil myself).
Other items that may not always be needed, but which can be handy to have on hand sometimes, include:
- a 6x6 sized ground glass for checking taking lens focus (a friend makes these for me with ordinary glass and abrasive compound for next to nothing);
- a magnifying loupe for use in conjunction with the above;
- a set of vernier calipers and a micrometer set;
- the Tomosy repair manuals, whilst not perfect nor infallibly accurate, offer useful general information;
- The Romney repair manual I also find to be useful as, whilst not perfect either, it seems to have been written much more from a practical, rather than theoretical, point of view. Romney's discussion of techniques for checking the focus accuracy of a TLR is informative in itself.
- a lot of owners don't seem to know that the wonderful people over at the Classic Camera Repair Forum have made the factory Rollei repair manual that covers most of the later Cords and Flexes available to download absolutely free of charge. It's a huge file (60 MB or so) but can be found here.
- A few ebay sellers list Rollei repair manuals of various types for USD $10-30 on disc or hard copy. Also, Compur's own shutter manual for many different iterations of Synchro Compur shutter installations is available on CD ROM. As I'm a hopeless case for other weirdo German cameras, like Bessamatics, and Contaflexes, as well as Rolleis, it was inevitable that I'd purchase this, and it's well-worth acquiring if only for the quality exploded diagrams. I acquired these reference materials on the basis that more data is better than less, whether they're dispensable to you, is another matter—as always, YMMV.
On the topic of record images: when assessing listing images and inspecting your camera on its arrival, take digital photographs of the parcel and its packaging as received, to establish condition, for possible use in the event of damage to the camera, insurance claims, settling disputes with the seller, etc. Sometimes, proof that a parcel is undamaged, can be just as essential as proof that it is not. And keep a scrap film on hand for testing the film advance, spacing and double exposure interlock.
Inspecting a Rolleicord (and to some extent, a Flex, also)
Closely examine the bayonet plate in relation to the body. You want to see even, consistent clearance between the bottom of the plate and the camera body. The bayonet plate is a separate component to the actual lens mounting plate beneath it, and may be adjusted independently. So, a bayonet plate in sound alignment, does not automatically guarantee that the lens plane is also perfectly aligned; or vice-versa. However, if the camera is dropped badly, the bayonet plate often takes the hit, and transfers impact forces to the lens mount and focus followers, so this is a problem you do not want to have to deal with, if at all possible. Hence, a straight, aligned bayonet plate is a good start. (For these reasons, always store or carry a Rollei with the focus racked in to infinity. It will not guarantee that damage will not result if the camera takes a hit, however retracting it helps to reduce the vulnerability of the focus mount and the focus components.)
The best examples should not only have even clearance all around the bayonet plate; they should also slide smoothly, and evenly, on both sides, all the way from infinity to close range and back. Wind the focus out from infinity; grasp the bayonet plate with fingers and palm; and gently, but firmly, see if you can induce any play or wobble in the lens assembly. A camera that has done a lot of work, taken a hit, or been poorly assembled will often have some slop in the focus. Naturally, focus suffers. The best examples will resist movement in any direction, at any focal range. At the risk of stating the obvious, do not use unreasonable force, of course!
Backs are another weak point. The camera should sit perfectly level on all four feet when placed on a flat surface. As you close the camera back, a gentle push should see it 'snap' into place against the camera body with perfect, even clearance. If the back either does not want to stay in the closed position without the latch engaged, or, does not align perfectly without using the latch, there is a problem—Rollei fit and alignment is perfect.
To examine the back more closely:
Remove it from the camera, and place it on a level surface with the tripod mount uppermost. It should sit perfectly aligned on its upper and lower edges without undue clearance, nor should not be possible to rock it in any plane. Lastly, with the back installed and latched, have a careful look at the clearance between the lower corners of the back and the camera body. This should be tight, and perfectly even all through the corner areas.
Some sellers straighten bent backs (with varying degrees of success) however it is rarely possible to get them factory-perfect again. The corner alignment often betrays poor attempts at repair; examine listing images critically for this problem (if the seller gives you a look, that is...
). I have had some bad luck with backs, recently. With the above information in mind, one listing featured the photographs I could have used to avoid the problem had I scrutinised them properly—benefit from my mistake! Good second hand replacement backs are not easy or cheap to find.The above comments are based on my own experiences over the last year or so, having learnt many of these lessons the hard way. I've had no formal training in camera repair; and claim no particular expertise or special ability. I'm simply an enthusiastic owner and user of Rollei TLRs, who is still in awe of their superlative quality and build. Feel free to disregard any of the above if it does not work for you—as always—YMMV.
You may, however, expect that some naysayers might warn you away from repairing your own Rollei. Whilst it is their prerogative to tell you that—don't let their lack of confidence, persistence or negativity, persuade you that it is an impossible task, if you have the right mindset, physical dexterity, and you are aware of your own limitations, not theirs. Only you can decide this. I have only three particular skills as a repairer: I try to find the best candidates for me to improve; I rarely, if ever, break things; and I persist, persist, persist, until I've got the camera working properly.
Having revived several Cords now with excellent results, I have 2.8C & 2.8D Flexes waiting for me to rejuvenate. The learning curve begins all over again. At least one of them requires adjustment and re-alignment of the focus and lens board and, of course, resetting of both lens focus. I expect this to take me some time to rectify satisfactorily, however I'll get there, because I just persevere, until I do and personally, I believe this is the key to success. Bon chance.
Regards,
Brett
archeophoto
I love 1950's quality
Wow, Brett.
This is excellent information, thank you very much! Exactly what I was hoping for.
I'm like you, I just don't give up. I figure with less and less qualified repair people around I can only win if I acquire the skills to do things myself.
Thanks again!
Herbert
This is excellent information, thank you very much! Exactly what I was hoping for.
I'm like you, I just don't give up. I figure with less and less qualified repair people around I can only win if I acquire the skills to do things myself.
Thanks again!
Herbert
ray*j*gun
Veteran
Impressive post Bret!!!!!
PMCC
Late adopter.
Not being a DIYer myself, I have only just now chanced upon your wonderful post, Brett. Even though I'm not one to roll up my sleeves and dive in (for want of know-how, tools, dexterity and courage), your post was an engaging and educational read. It enhances the Rollei user experience to be an informed buyer as well as knowledgeable consumer of repair services. I've recently dodged a bullet in the wild world of Ebay myself.
Your views on the Rolleicord V were of particular interest. I could not agree with you more that it represents the sweet spot of Rolleicord development, at the optimal price point. Right hand, big knob focus to boot. I'm glad that the Vb exists to distract attention from the lowlier V models! Rolleiflexes are a whole different kettle of fish -- to my mind there is no sweet spot in the upscale end of the used TLR market, dominated by late model Rolleiflexes. Lots of discussion in the TLR forum here lately on whether upgrading from Tessar/Xenar to Planar/Xenotar, or from 3.5 to 2.8, is worthwhile. Depends on your marginal utility of funds, and shooting habits. At the expense of pocket book prudence, I am a fan.
Your views on the Rolleicord V were of particular interest. I could not agree with you more that it represents the sweet spot of Rolleicord development, at the optimal price point. Right hand, big knob focus to boot. I'm glad that the Vb exists to distract attention from the lowlier V models! Rolleiflexes are a whole different kettle of fish -- to my mind there is no sweet spot in the upscale end of the used TLR market, dominated by late model Rolleiflexes. Lots of discussion in the TLR forum here lately on whether upgrading from Tessar/Xenar to Planar/Xenotar, or from 3.5 to 2.8, is worthwhile. Depends on your marginal utility of funds, and shooting habits. At the expense of pocket book prudence, I am a fan.
Sorry for the tardy reply, guys. Thanks kindly. Glad it was worth the (rather long) read.
Regards,
Brett
Regards,
Brett
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Thanks for that. Yes, the V, to me, does seem to offer more bang for the buck than a Va or Vb—unless you really do prefer the left side focus, or need the option of attaching a prism—and that is purely a personal preference. Of course, a III or a IV is more affordable again, but as mentioned previously, being someone who does some landscape captures I often use a tripod, and find a self-timer to be a really useful feature. But I have yet to meet a Rollei TLR I couldn't fall in love with (although I haven't had the pleasure of trying a Rolleimagic, yet!).
On the topic of self timers.
I found it interesting that, with the later shutters at least, you don't have to arm them all the way, to use them (well, not if they've been serviced recently, anyway). There are times you definitely don't want the full ten seconds delay they offer. Sliding the lever over two or three clicks (try it with your own) will give you just a couple of seconds delay before firing the shutter—perfect, if there are people likely to wander into your shot—and something I have applied to good effect on a few occasions, hand holding a slower speed. It enables you to concentrate on your breathing, without worrying about bumping the camera as you fire it...sharpness can benefit.
I realised after I had made my original post, that I probably had the beginnings of a (hopefully) helpful guide to inspecting and buying these amazing cameras. So I've expanded on it and added some more comments about the pros and cons of a few of the models—merely my own opinions, whatever they're worth—many will disagree with my conclusions, of course, as is their right. But I've also tried to place a real emphasis on tips or techniques a buyer can use for inspecting a camera, to ensure they're not stuck with a dud. You'll find it here, and for those people who, like myself, rate them highly, I have also written one for the Zeiss Ikon Contaflex single lens reflexes.
Regards,
Brett
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PMCC
Late adopter.
Your Ebay guide is a valuable public service. Perhaps Meleica, who also posts here, would see fit to linking it from his Rolleiflex and Rolleicord price guide pages.
I'd also like to see a guide to interpreting the semiotics of Ebay camera descriptions, with some common sense baseline expectations of standards of description and disclosure. A catalog of common checkpoints could be derived from your guide and form the basis of such standards. At the end of the day these fine cameras are manufactured commodities, with a finite list of variants and common issues, and not the ineffable and unknowable objects of yore that some sellers make them out to be. Often feigned, such mystification is no more than a disingenuous attempt to shift the burden of discovering latent defects on to the buyer. At least the buyer can now be better informed after reading your guide. Bravo!
I'd also like to see a guide to interpreting the semiotics of Ebay camera descriptions, with some common sense baseline expectations of standards of description and disclosure. A catalog of common checkpoints could be derived from your guide and form the basis of such standards. At the end of the day these fine cameras are manufactured commodities, with a finite list of variants and common issues, and not the ineffable and unknowable objects of yore that some sellers make them out to be. Often feigned, such mystification is no more than a disingenuous attempt to shift the burden of discovering latent defects on to the buyer. At least the buyer can now be better informed after reading your guide. Bravo!
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