Would You Leica Price Increase?

[Nikon Bob]

I have to agree with Joe on this one in that the increase is of no direct concern to the vast majority of RF camera users. The price new is simply unaffordable so an increase is irrelavent in much the same way as an increase in the price of a new Porsche or Aero is. My newest M is about 30 years old and I might be able to afford a 30 year old Porsche but a new one no way.

Bob

 

[sgy1962]

My understanding is not that Leica is raising prices, but that Leica USA will have a new policy come July 1, which will have the effect of raising prices to the end user. Leica dealers have advised some customers, including me, that -- as of July 1 -- Leica USA will not let its dealers sell items below MSP. MSP now for an M7 or MP is about $3300, and the street price for these items here in the states is anywhere for $2660 to $2900. The same is true for lenses. Ergo, come July 1 prices are going up.

I don't know if there is a price increase coming from Germany. For the life of me, I can't understand the reasoning of this move by Leica USA.

I may be in the minority, but I think if Leica could drop prices on their bodies by about 15% they would stimulate alot of sales. I don't think they would need to drop prices on their lenses, because I would think lens sales would go up when body sales go up (who wants to put that old lens on a new body).

Of course, there is a limited window of opportunity, because when the Zeiss Ikon body comes out, assuming no glitches, Leica sales in both bodies and lenses will further go down. The premise here is that when the Zeiss body comes out people will be more likely to buy the zeiss lenses, which, parenthetically, are atractively priced and have received very good, although limited, reviews.

 

[Bertram2]

FYI. According to Mr. Gandy, over on CVUG, the prices of all things Leica are going up July1, purportedly, for example, an MP and M7 will go from $2895 to $3295.

If I were nuts I would, yes ! :bang:
And thus I'd try to reduce my stock ware
worth more than than $50 Millions, as I recently announced.

If the 50 mios stock ware are cost price this stock costs them at least 6 mios loss each year.
And now they have nothing better to do than to close the $ door, the new price is about the European Euro price. But I would think the $ market is too important for them to play such silly games.

I think the strategy is to tart up the ruin and then to sell it. There is no other explanation for what they do.
Regards,
Bertram

 

[TEZillman]

The Leica name is continually followed by the words "expensive" or "unaffordable", but let's face it, they are a luxury item. That's the nature of a luxury item. There are very few of us that need a camera that's built the way an MP or M7 is. Since we're talking about the price of luxury items, is a Leica a poor investment compared to other top of the line cameras? If you purchased a M7 when they first came out in the spring of 2002, the list price was $2390.00. Today, B &H has a mint used M7 listed for $2399.00. If you bought a Nikon F5 at the same time you probably paid around $2000.00. (The original list was $3200.00 in 1996.) A mint used F5 at B & H today is listed at $1049.00. Individual are unlikely to get the same amount of money for a used camera that B & H does, but, for the sake of illustration, the M7 was clearly the best choice three years ago from a financial viewpoint (if you can discuss luxury cameras in these terms.)

What about today? What will a $8000.00 Canon EOS 1DS or a $1700.00 EOS 1V be worth in a few years? What will a $5000.00 Nikon D2x or a $2050.00 F6 be worth? Will there be a collectable market for these?

Tom

 

[Uncle Bill]

The price increase on Leica gear could be traced to a weaker US greenback and maybe the price maitence which is reminicent of Rolex can be traced to the involvement of Hermes. I think the real problem is we have a company that makes some products that we all worship, the management team is no longer thinking camera but Luxury object along the lines of a Mont Blanc 149 fountain pen. There is no way I could afford a new MP/7 with lenses so I am happy with my M3 and at some point get an M4(-P/2).

Bill

 

[Bertram2]

Leicas are no luxury items

Leicas are no luxury items

The Leica name is continually followed by the words "expensive" or "unaffordable", but let's face it, they are a luxury item. That's the nature of a luxury item. ........ for the sake of illustration, the M7 was clearly the best choice three years ago from a financial viewpoint (if you can discuss luxury cameras in these terms.)

Tom

Maybe it is offered and traded as a luxury item, maybe it is understood as a a luxury item and may this is what Leitz intended Ms and Rs to be from a certain point of it's history on. Nonetheless it is NOT a luxury item as longs as it is not gold plated or covered with diamonds.
It 's just a very well made mechanical tool produced at costs too high to be affordable for enuff passionated photogs. And when I say not affordable I mean some could spend the money if they wanted, some easily and some with more or less pain, but all would regard it to be much too much money for this product.

Many of them buy used stuff instead and this keeps up the worth of the product of course, nice only for those who buy and trade permanently gear hoping thus to improve their photos or to entertain themselves . All others think about what happens if half a liter of beer is spilled over a M7 and a 1.4/50, or if it falls down the stairs or gets robbed.


This keeps off the NEW clients they need so urgently and now it turns out that the luxury strategy of Leitz was not understood at all by themselves. They would have needed a lot of innovation to keep the business with their old clients running but they did not more than cosmetic nonsense and kept that luxury image as a smart way to justify their ridiculous prices which btw are in Europe still higher than in US.
They were VERY lucky to survive so long with this soft headed understanding of their markets, but now they got the bill.

Regards,
Bertram

 

[egpj]

That is allot of money for an M body. Right now I can not justify spending that much on a body. I did want to get a new one (preferably an M7 w/motor drive) just to have a spare for my MP. But not at the price they are discussing. If they do raise their prices Zeiss will make killing!

 

[bobofish]

Bertram, you're absolutely right, Leica's as a whole are not luxury products, they are simply finely made cameras.

Even the new Alpas, with their gold plating and rosewood, are not luxury products, but extemely finely made cameras. Alpa can afford to go hardcore with their products, because they are very very small, and have their niche...not to mention they probablly take the finest pictures in medium format.

If Leica wants to survive as a camera company, rather than as a scope/point and shoot and luxury box company, then they will absolutely need to lower their prices, or add some major incentives for people to want their cameras...some people are fools, but not all people, and the people who consider buying Leicas are usually not fools.

I know many many people that dream of owning a Leica, and would beg borrow and steel if they could get them for even a half-way decent price.

Unattainability works wonderfully for Ferrari, because they make more money from merchandising and F1 then they ever make on cars....there is no F1 for cameras...


Also, I can not for a moment believe that it costs Leica $2700 to make an M. There is no way in the world that Leica dealers would sell Leica's out of the goodness of their hearts, and a company would have to be absolutely senile to sell their products to their retailers already at a loss.....but yet somehow I can believe it might be true.

I have some hotdogs to sell you...I bought the sausages for $5 each, I'll sell you a complete gourmet hotdog for $2.....why oh why am I losing money?

 

[NoTx]

My understanding is not that Leica is raising prices, but that Leica USA will have a new policy come July 1, which will have the effect of raising prices to the end user. Leica dealers have advised some customers, including me, that -- as of July 1 -- Leica USA will not let its dealers sell items below MSP. MSP now for an M7 or MP is about $3300, and the street price for these items here in the states is anywhere for $2660 to $2900. The same is true for lenses. Ergo, come July 1 prices are going up.

Well, if the want the DoJ to shut them down in 90 days... Leica USA could do that (considered price fixing). It is however blatantly illegal. Lame thing is, I am almost in the market for an M. Very frustrating it they raise prices. Have to see what happens.

 

[Socke]

Hm, nearly $2400 where 2670 Euro in 2002. Those 2670 Euro are roughly $3400 today.

You can get it worse! The local Burger King advertises $1.40 for one Euro, a Double Wopper with fries and a coke sets you back $7, then

 

[NoTx]

You can get it worse! The local Burger King advertises $1.40 for one Euro, a Double Wopper with fries and a coke sets you back $7, then

Hmm... Sounds like the Burger King off Market in San Francisco.

 

[RayPA]

Hmm... Sounds like the Burger King off Market in San Francisco.

all those Market st. fast food joints are an experience. Wandered into the Wendy's late one night after a show, many years ago, one of the most wierdest experiences ever.

 

[XAos]

Well, if the want the DoJ to shut them down in 90 days... Leica USA could do that (considered price fixing). It is however blatantly illegal.

Price fixing is when competitors agree to set prices. There is a long history of manufacturers requiring dealers to not sell below list price. Mesa Boogie has done this in the music world for more than twenty years - and there are plenty of other examples. I think it is still practically the same thing, but evidently the courts see it otherwise.

 

[NoTx]

Actually, the music world is a place where it has seen huge amounts of legal fines over that... not to long ago

Also, remember, Scions were SUPPOSED to be sold at list. They were told, umm... no. So now Toyota tries to force dealers to, by cutting profit margins. But they no longer even attempt to force the dealers overtly.