x-ray
Veteran
Would you shoot assignments free if the person assigning the work were making money from it? I'd say the people asking for a freebie had plenty of nerve but ive had several companies try this. The last time turned out to be a full day of shooting out of town plus an estimated half day of computer time. I was promised a byline but no promise of future pay work.
I'm not a beginner, I've been shooting professionally for 50 years. My response was " NO!, you want me to spend a day and a half shooting for you for no pay and no promise of future pay work, NO!" "You're going to get paid for my work and I'm not? NO!" Maybe forty five years ago I might have considered it but probably would have refused then.
A good friend of mine who's a long time designer sent this link to me. I hope this has an impact on everyone that shoots for a living or aspires to.
http://www.photographybay.com/2015/...-non-creative-professionals-to-work-for-free/
I'm not a beginner, I've been shooting professionally for 50 years. My response was " NO!, you want me to spend a day and a half shooting for you for no pay and no promise of future pay work, NO!" "You're going to get paid for my work and I'm not? NO!" Maybe forty five years ago I might have considered it but probably would have refused then.
A good friend of mine who's a long time designer sent this link to me. I hope this has an impact on everyone that shoots for a living or aspires to.
http://www.photographybay.com/2015/...-non-creative-professionals-to-work-for-free/
x-ray
Veteran
I've also had the flip side of this happen. I've had (ex) clients take 90-180 days to pay and refuse to pay interest. Finally I told them I've changed policies on payment. My new policy is you pay me now and I do your work in 90 days. Notice I said EX clients.
Share your experiences.
Share your experiences.
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
Yeah, I run into this a lot - both as a photographer and a graphic designer. I've gotten pretty good at saying no, and sticking to my guns. I do have one client though, that still owes me for a shoot 13 months ago. :/
Funny video, thanks for sharing.
Funny video, thanks for sharing.
Reminds me of this:
emraphoto
Veteran
truthfully, the non-payment issue is rampant. the free thing hasn't been a problem however late or non-payment has become a plague.
Oscuro
He's French, I'm Italian.
Most of our work done for agencies is net-90 or some variation of the same. We are a collective so sometimes quid pro quo works rather than a fee.
However. We have noticed that in the community of NGOs that we have worked with or have been referred to us, there is a uptrend in solicitation of work for free/conscience deals.
We're unfailingly polite but decline except in very rare cases where we have supported the client out of ethical/personal interest.. For the rest, if the dialogue continues and the person we're talking to seems open, we'll provide a more detailed explanation of why we don't work for free.
However. We have noticed that in the community of NGOs that we have worked with or have been referred to us, there is a uptrend in solicitation of work for free/conscience deals.
We're unfailingly polite but decline except in very rare cases where we have supported the client out of ethical/personal interest.. For the rest, if the dialogue continues and the person we're talking to seems open, we'll provide a more detailed explanation of why we don't work for free.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
If you are doing it for free..you are actually paying them to do it..
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
Many larger companies in the UK regularly take between 3-6 months to pay an invoice, far too often they will attempt to take even longer. I assume its not that different elsewhere?
Small businesses here have heard many times from the Government that they will legislate, and then adequately back that legislation, to ensure large corporations pay their suppliers in a sensible and fair timeframe. It's still to happen.
I get the odd client start to skirt around asking for a freebie or reduced rate but they back off pretty quickly, perhaps they can read the micro expressions.
Small businesses here have heard many times from the Government that they will legislate, and then adequately back that legislation, to ensure large corporations pay their suppliers in a sensible and fair timeframe. It's still to happen.
I get the odd client start to skirt around asking for a freebie or reduced rate but they back off pretty quickly, perhaps they can read the micro expressions.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I was interviewed by a trade magazine and they wanted some shots including the cover, so I recommend a friend who is a professional photographer. Anyway my friend did the job and the issue with me in it was released but then the publisher doesn't settle my friend's invoice for a long long time. I don't remember how long but must have been 6 months. So my friend is furious with me, and kept sending me angry e-mails demanding payment. I thought I did him a favor by getting him a gig. He got paid finally but next time there will be no next time.
btgc
Veteran
Give me an espresso shot for free and will go on internet telling how great it was!
lynnb
Veteran
If the person asking is being paid or if the work will generate direct or indirect income or benefit, the answer is no. My business is, above all else, to support my family. I can't do that without income.
The request to work for free when the person or entity requesting the work is being paid or is capable of paying me, indicates they see me as gullible and that they have no respect for me. That's not a healthy relationship.
The request to work for free when the person or entity requesting the work is being paid or is capable of paying me, indicates they see me as gullible and that they have no respect for me. That's not a healthy relationship.
Georgiy Romanov
stray cat
I start my career as a freelance author/photographer 2 years ago. I do a free job only for very good friends and if it looks interesting for myself and for my projects. In any other situations I said NO.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
I will work for free when I find the cause to be worthwhile and there is no budget. In my case, this concerns small events or campaigns that have a strong ethical and humanitarian scope.
However, this is always my own initiative and I get to see the visibility and promotions part of the event or campaign through, so I can at least list it in my resume and it will help build my future profile as a communications consultant. If that can't be part of the deal, then no deal.
Businesses that ask me for freebies while planning to make money off my work, don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
However, this is always my own initiative and I get to see the visibility and promotions part of the event or campaign through, so I can at least list it in my resume and it will help build my future profile as a communications consultant. If that can't be part of the deal, then no deal.
Businesses that ask me for freebies while planning to make money off my work, don't let the door hit ya on the way out.
Ronald M
Veteran
I do free work for my church. Otherwise no.
Maybe uncle Ernie can do your wedding.
Maybe uncle Ernie can do your wedding.
Kent
Finally at home...
For friends, yes.
For non-profit charity without budget, yes.
For any kind of business, no!
For non-profit charity without budget, yes.
For any kind of business, no!
Paul T.
Veteran
I once did a job for free. This was a writing piece for a prestigious mag - I did it because the photographer is a friend and work in this mag would get him some ad work.
It confirmed my impression that the respect you get from people is usually proportionate to the amount they pay you. On this mag, they changed the word count and brief - once the article had been submitted! I told them I'd change a few lines but otherwise, it was take it or leave it.
I think it's the same with eBay and freecycle. Sell an item, people will turn up or pay when promised, and treat you well. Give away an item, and they will send you mis-spelt texts, or ask you to deliver, whatever.
So in short - work for free, and you won't make people like you more, you merely make them respect you less.
It confirmed my impression that the respect you get from people is usually proportionate to the amount they pay you. On this mag, they changed the word count and brief - once the article had been submitted! I told them I'd change a few lines but otherwise, it was take it or leave it.
I think it's the same with eBay and freecycle. Sell an item, people will turn up or pay when promised, and treat you well. Give away an item, and they will send you mis-spelt texts, or ask you to deliver, whatever.
So in short - work for free, and you won't make people like you more, you merely make them respect you less.
x-ray
Veteran
I'm even getting selective on charity work. A couple of years ago a design group I do work for was contracted by one of the largest charity collection groups in the US to produce 3 30 second commercials and 3 sets of ads. I was contacted to do the lighting for the TV and shoot the still ads. I put together an experienced crew of grips and gaffers plus grip truck for free. The agency got a director, cinematographer and writer. This was a big production and we all understood there was no pay.
We all worked in the summer heat 14 hours a day for 3 days plus several meetings prior to the shoot. The product was beautiful and something we could be proud of. The down side was the design firm / Agency which did virtually nothing got paid and none of us even got a thank you :-(
I'm seeing more and more entitlement attitude from clients and clients that once paid full rate trying to get my prices down. The old guard that knew quality and ran things has changed and is now under 30 years old. I'm not sure most of them know what quality is or care about developing professional relationships with vendors. Everything and everybody are disposable and if you don't want to play their way then someone else will. Quality in many cases just doesn't matter now. Cheap is king.
Even in the art world people are wanting discounts. I have my x-Ray work in 6 or 7 high end galleries and my galleries report that customers are wanting a 10% doscount now. I instruct my galleries that's ok if it's someone like an interior designer or museum or a customer buying several large pieces, Otherwise no. I thinky solution to this is to raise my prices to compensate but on the other hand I'm not sure I want feed this way of thinking.
Fortunately I'm semi retired and still have some excellent clients. I'm happy shooting commercial assignments a couple of days a week and working on the art the rest.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I was thinking of that very same article before I read this post. I usually ask for 25%-50% deposit for a job with a new client. I've been burned in the past, especially in the days of film and processing. After the second time of not getting paid by a new client, I've asked for film and processing costs/deposit upfront. I've carried that over to digital, unless we have a signed agreement beforehand. Having friends who are lawyers helps here as well too.
willie_901
Veteran
Never say never.
There might be unique circumstance where I would do free work for a client.
But in general The Oatmeal Cartoon sums things up for me.
There might be unique circumstance where I would do free work for a client.
But in general The Oatmeal Cartoon sums things up for me.
Tompas
Wannabe Künstler
I'm not sure whether it makes any sense at all to compare professional photography to electrical engineering, but our clients pay within 30 days (or within 14 days with 2% off). Most of our clients are large german companies in the automotive sector.
There is just one exception to this rule: one 20.000 employee company says they cannot process an invoice "that fast" -- but that's BS, of course. They pay within 60 days.