wow... i'm kind of pissed

jaapv said:
Rumour has it that there is a "small" M digital in the pipeline. And what is wrong with the RD1? Those are perfecty good second string cameras as well.
And for lenses - well, the CV lineup won't break the bank and are amazingly good quality.
Click to expand...

The fact that CV lenses are great is 100% true. If leica do infact release a smaller digi M then I have to wonder what they'll strip back in it. If the viewfinder is the same, as well as the sensor, it doesn't seem like they can get rid of many features. Maybe a more flimsy construction? I guess we'll find out at Photokina?

Maybe it'll be much the same but with a 1.5x crop factor to make IR less of a problem and employ a chip like that in the Sony A700? I wouldn't mind that scenario. Size of chip is a big deal considering price, and many people would pay extra for a bigger chip, especially if leica are considering ways to go full frame.
 
well here's the update folks...
1/ i'll NEVER buy another thing from kurland photo again! which is a shame as it could have been I'LL BUY everything from kurland photo for very little effort and money.
2/ jean at camtec has offered to act on my behalf and it is now on it's way to leica in new jersey. rob at leica has assured me a fairly quick turn around time but at this point i'm not holding my breath. a big KUDOS to jean at camtec!!! that guy is what a dealer is all about.
i'll let you know how things unfold...
 
thanx for the well wishing dave... i think the lesson is "support your local and fave dealer". i went with the NY option to save a few bucks and i now regret it. camtec is a gem of a dealer and i should have supported them in the first place (even if it cost a few more bucks).
on that note they have a demo with warranty for $4300!
john
 
I think the real issue is that Leica pretty much need to see any camera under warranty before making any kind of exchange / refund / repair and unfortunately this means a trip to Germany. No matter how honourable Leica ultimately are, they still physically need to inspect the camera. It would be nice to think that they have service centres worldwide but they realistically do not have the numbers to justify it. This creates problems not only in terms of travel time, but communications with Leica themselves. My broken M8 is currently in Germany, but Leica UK will not contact them on my behalf. So the chain of communication is; Germany: Leica UK : my dealer and eventually me. I am told it may be end of January 2008 before Leica get a chance to inspect my camera and obviously there will be additional time for repaires afer that. (my camera was sent to leica UK 3rd December). I just feel completely out of the loop and it is rather frustrating. I think few can justify 2 Leica M8's, but insurance to cover replacement equipment duting repairs might be one option, however hire might prove rather difficult in reality.

Richard
 
what really gets me through this whole experience is kurland expecting me to pay shipping back and forth to replace the camera. perhaps it's just me but i find that ludicrous!
in twenty years of experience i have never run into a dealer like that...
 
John,

Sorry to hear the experience hasn't turned out wrt that particular dealer - I too, as you're well aware, was considering buying from that dealer based on the reviews they've gotten. I too wanted to save a few bucks on a demo - it would frustrate me beyond belief though - and knowing that, I think, I would buy local via Harry's and let him (Brian) take care of any issues - at least he's in Toronto.

Hope you get the M8 back soon.

Wishing you well,
Dave
 
Out of curiosity, did you ask Eli whether he'd accept the defective camera as a refund and ship you a new one? I assume you purchased the M8 brand new, not a demo unit.
 
Richard Marks said:
I think the real issue is that Leica pretty much need to see any camera under warranty before making any kind of exchange / refund / repair and unfortunately this means a trip to Germany. No matter how honourable Leica ultimately are, they still physically need to inspect the camera. It would be nice to think that they have service centres worldwide but they realistically do not have the numbers to justify it. This creates problems not only in terms of travel time, but communications with Leica themselves. My broken M8 is currently in Germany, but Leica UK will not contact them on my behalf. So the chain of communication is; Germany: Leica UK : my dealer and eventually me. I am told it may be end of January 2008 before Leica get a chance to inspect my camera and obviously there will be additional time for repaires afer that. (my camera was sent to leica UK 3rd December). I just feel completely out of the loop and it is rather frustrating. I think few can justify 2 Leica M8's, but insurance to cover replacement equipment duting repairs might be one option, however hire might prove rather difficult in reality.

Richard
Click to expand...
May I suggest you get into contact with Andrea Frankl at Leica, Solms, Richard. You'll find her extremely helpful.
 
i spoke with eli personally on the phone earlier in the day... i said i had issue's and wanted it replaced. i DID NOT want to pay a bunch of shipping to send it back and forth and he then told me "no problem, send it back and we'll replace it. send it through ups on our account". i thought, great! problem solved!
i phoned later to get the shipping info etc. and was informed that they would NOT PAY FOR SHIPPING ETC. and i had to pay for that. i then said "?!?!?!?"
that is not acceptable TO ME. TO ME. TO ME. i am not spending another $200 plus on shipping to get a useable version of the product i already spent a chunk of dough on. it is not acceptable TO ME. THUS i will not buy from them again. not much more to the story than that.
ELI or kurland photo didn't seem to care one way or the other what i did. that's the impression I RECIEVED as a customer.
it wasn't that they weren't going to deal with it. let me be clear... i said many times here AND to eli and kurlands staff... i do not want to be paying more money to send the camera back and forth. period. that is my issue with kurland.
 
emraphoto,

This may sound like a really stupid question but were you able to test the camera before buying it...??? (or did you buy it on-line???)
Did it work for the first six days and then go bad...???
What happened, how did it happen and can it happen again once you get it back...???
 
hey sam
i had it shipped up from ny city so no testing. im not even sure that the line would show up on the lcd. apparently it's a dng (raw) issue. it started fairly immediately... i saw one or two frames with issue and then more and more started.
i certainly hope it doesn't happen again (after it's returned).
 
thanx fred for the efforts... sincerely that was an awesome thing to do! however both rob at leica and jean at camtec in montreal basically took it out of my hands and said don't worry about it they'll get it shipped, fixed/replaced whatever at no cost to me. it was sent out this afternoon.
maybe i don't understand the intrinsic dollars and cents of the camera buisiness but i own a buisiness myself and my expectations throughout this experience are completely different than what has occured. problem is i stand by what my expectations were, demo or brand new.
thanx again though for your efforts, that was a stand up thing to do and if you're ever in my neck of the woods (montreal) you be sure to let me know...
for the record, it was eli himself who said they would take care of shipping on their account. the store gave me his CEL? and i rang him up. this i am very sure of.
 
dave, if you ever consider buying you must also consider camtec. jean has been nothing short of extraordinary! i didn't even buy the camera from him and he's taking care of it for me!?!?! wow!
jump on the train for the weekend and i'll put you up!
 
they did give me his cel to call.
well i do fundamently believe in a few things. i REALLY wanted the kurland thing to go well but remain attached to my belief that demo or no demo it should have been rectified immediately by the dealer at no further cost to the customer (me). it's not as though the m8 would be my last big leica purchase, i mean i'm only 38! i've still got many years of runing up the credit cards! i believe for a relatively small amount of effort and $ this could have turned out positive and garnered a repeat customer. i can't tell eli how to run his shop as i am sure he knows this industry far better than i. i was expecting more concern on their end, plain and simple. due to whatever interplanetary allignment that occured it didn't happen.
i know the leica cliche... i am neither a dentist or a lawyer. i am a working photographer and restauranteur. that $ took me a lot of sweat to come up with, another $200+ to rectify the "issue" just wasn't going to happen.
i fully understand the nickels and dimes of doing buisiness, really. and i loathe the thought of kurland photo or any other reputable shop struggling due to migrating purchasing (ie: amazon, bestbuy etc.) but i can't help but think eli shot himself in the foot on this one.
i am of course open to being corrected if i am being unreasonable. i sincerely wish eli best of wishes and i am sorry this turned out the way it did.
i cannot thank you enough for your care and concern during my wee freakout fred. i will not forget that.
 
ps i don't know who's taking car eof shipping but when i asked both leica and jean at camtec said "don't worry about it". it will be shipped back to camtec as soon as possible.
 
There will always be a place for brick and mortar stores and I think John's situation is a classic example. He said himself he wished he had just gone to Camtec in the first place.
When you purchase something via the internet and there is a problem, even if the seller agrees to take care of it at no charge, there is always the hassle of shipping which is a big time waster at best especially for a working photographer.
Not to mention not every camera buyer is as savvy as we are and would be glad of the help an experienced sales person can offer.
I'm hoping we'll see a resurgence of small boutique stores (kinda like film) where customers will place some value on service rather than rock bottom internet prices.
 
I really tried to support the local stores in our community, but frankly they keep shooting themselves in the foot. Their prices compared to B&H or Adorama are outrageous - on everything from film to gear. Many of the employees couldn't tell the difference between a Leica and a Canon DSLR, other than the name and the looks are different - so customer service does not warrant the higher prices either.

I find it very easy to deal with B&H and/or Amazon on returns or exchanges. It is sad to see the local dealers fade away, but frankly, I don't see a way around it. The internet has made camera/film shopping very convinient.

I bet that the original poster would have had much less trouble dealing with B&H and/or Amazon.
 
Ahh you US boys and girls .. 7-eleven convenience stores arrgh! .. come to my neighborhood .. we still have cheese shops that use real milk, butchers who specialise in pork or meat .. not both.
But most of all we have real beer ;) not headache in a bottle!

I digress .. I too would rather do business with the family store than the discount store, hey what does it matter to me who gets my money .. better the local guy hey?
Happy christmas to you all .. especially for the small store owners .. for you are few and far between.
 
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