Writing the caption and writing in general

[Phil_F_NM]

I've seen a not-so-slow decline in the ability or patience or attention to detail or whatever, of grammar in both formally published and informally shared images and writing. It may be a pet peeve but the improper use of the apostrophe, turning many plurals into possessives, your/you're, its/it's, there/their/they're, etc. Prepositions are being dropped from speech, and now writing, giving us phrases like "when I'm done work," which is going to give me a facial twitch. I think the most common one though, is the plurals becoming possessive. All these little things bother me, and surely current and former editors, to no end. I understand that some parts of speech and grammar are non-existent in other languages, but here in the USA, I hear and see this more and more. Is this a state of cultural linguistic change or possibly just folks allowing their phones to write for them?

Phil Forrest

 

[peterm1]

"Is this a state of cultural linguistic change or possibly just folks allowing their phones to write for them?"

There is an app (a made up term which itself abhorrent if you ask me) called "Grammarly" which purports to all the user to "Compose bold, clear, mistake-free writing with Grammarly’s AI-powered writing assistant". The existence of this app tells me all I need to know about the state of affairs - people are not properly taught vocabulary, composition, grammar, punctuation or if it comes to that, pretty much anything in schools. Schools these days are not for teaching and learning. They seem to be pretty much for the purpose of indoctrination. I am impressed by the thought that children attending grammar school in Shakespeare's time were taught not just English, but Latin and Greek too. Plus classical history to boot. And we think them to be in some sense "primitive" and unschooled because they would not know what an "app" or iphone are if teleported to the 21st C.

I am not obsessive about strict adherence to the rules of grammar etc. But I do deplore poor use of the English language to the point where too many people would seem to be able to better express their thoughts through a series of grunts and facial tics. This is especially an issue online where a lot of social media promotes, if I can for a moment use their language, stupid. So often if I use something like Facebook, when I read someone's post I have to read it several times to work out what in hell the person is saying - the language used is so abbreviated and replete with misspelling and misusages. (Admittedly this is sometimes because the poster does not have English as a first language - in which case kudos for him or her, but I usually check names and locations to see if this might be a factor but often it is not.)

 

[jsrockit]

I see it a lot in informal texts and forum posts... and that can be blamed on using a cell phone. I can get lazy with a phone because it is just a pain in the butt to type on sometimes. However, which formally published works?

 

[Horatio]

It’s just another sign of the imminent collapse of Western Civilization.

 

[charjohncarter]

Two days ago I complained slightly about this to my daughter. She told me that the schools (my granddaughter's public school) here in California are throwing out the language rules, punctuation rules and even somehow not bothering with sentence structure.

I'm not sure I completely understood this or her, but it didn't sound good to me. I asked what she is going to do about it. Her answer, 'I've already changed her to Catholic school.'

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Phil, you would weep for our culture if you spent a few days as a high school or middle school teacher. I remember starting out as a teacher and realizing that a considerable proportion of the kids were functionally illiterate. They could read tolerably well, but they could barely write.


Its not their fault. Its ours. "Us" meaning the adults who were supposed to be guiding them through life. These kids had spent YEARS in school before they reached my classroom. I taught 9th, 11th, and 12th graders my first year. That means the youngest of them were in their 10th year of school (kindergarten then grades 1-8 before they got to high school). Every single teacher they had for the first nine years they were in school had abdicated their responsibility to those kids to properly educate them, and the parents were even worse because they did nothing to demand that their kids get the education they deserved.

 

[Yokosuka Mike]

In the good old days, when people would actually read what you wrote proper grammar was important. If I put out a memo at work with spelling and punctuation mistakes people would focus on the grammatical errors and not the message.

All the best,
Mike

 

[agentlossing]

For awhile, the writing market (especially self-publishing) was oversaturated. Now, I can hope that when I have material ready to send to publishers, my proper grammar can start me out at a a competitive advantage.

 

[charjohncarter]

Every single teacher they had for the first nine years they were in school had abdicated their responsibility to those kids to properly educate them, and the parents were even worse because they did nothing to demand that their kids get the education they deserved.

Good statement, Chris, as the British say, 'It is the thin edge of the wedge.'

My days working were sometimes upsetting when kids would tell me their parents were going (with them) to Mexico to see family for 2-4 weeks, and this during the school year.

 

[madNbad]

As Twitter becomes a main source of information, sentence structure has a bleak future.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Grammar police post? Haven't seen those here for sometime. If any.

I have written some real life and not so stories. My grammar is terrible in mother tongue and ESL. Yet, some of it was published in Russian Cosmopolitan.
One of my colleague is genius person. Yet, his writing is terrible. While he is one of the major contributors at work...

But general trend is - writing with grammar is on decline. Typing from mobile phone is not something for style of Tolstoy.
And with well paid socialists at public schools grammar is not something they are capable of to teach. Grammar is enforcement without politics. Not those teachers wanna do.
My wife asked one of those at public school, the answer was "computer, phone will correct the spelling".

 

[Yokosuka Mike]

I barely graduated from high school (the teachers were great, I was the problem). And, I did not go to college. Later in life being able to communicate in the written language became essential to my success at work. “The Elements of Style” (Strunk & White) was the best little book I ever read. For such a thin book it was a big help.

All the best,
Mike

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Grammar police post? Haven't seen those here for sometime. If any.

Is grammar a sacred cow that can't be mentioned? Maybe in the name of being PC, it will go the way of religion and politics in civil discussion because so much of grammar is guided by the public school system (hence the old name "grammar school") yet many of our public schools have been defunded to the point of barely being daycare. A place where kids go while their parents work, the modality of learning is secondary to the fact that the kids aren't home.

Chris is right, in that we now pay teachers barely anything and the school boards are trying to fund schools based upon success according to testing as well as attendance. As if the public school system is a for-profit corporation. Teaching to the test is not a way to achieve any learning but it does guarantee funding. It's all a big mess, and yes, we are to blame.

Phil Forrest

 

[Pál_K]

As a teenager I learned proper English grammar by reading newspapers, magazines, and books. This was the 1960's - the literary standards were much higher back then than they are today (in my opinion).

It helped that languages and linguistics became a hobby for me also when I was a teenager.

To this day, though, there are still some words I mispronounce and - sometimes amusingly - I discover words that do not mean what I thought they do.

Mistakes in grammar or spelling by others don't bother me very much. Far more offensive are hideously fabricated words such as "impactful" when perfectly good words for the concept already exist.

 

[farlymac]

I put my Catholic School upbringing to good use back when I became Local Chairman of our Union. You have to think and write like a lawyer to be able to do that job. And know lots of big words. It was the only way to keep management honest.



PF

 

[Franko]

Who needs punctuation when all you ever write is emoji shorthand on your glowing obsession?

 

[Rob-F]

Typing from mobile phone is not something for style of Tolstoy.

I love that statement! Though, I don't believe we have many young folks in this country today who are ready to write like Tolstoy no matter what they may be writing with.

I think part of the problem may be that Americans don't take pride in the English language any more. If we felt about English like the French feel about their language, things would be different. Try to speak French to a Frenchman; if you make a mistake, you will hear about it.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Am personally surprised we have reached 15 posts and no one, usually a high school teacher these days, has yet said, “It don’t matter.” Or, “You knew what I meant dint you?”
The fact no one has yet done that cheers me, though I await the dropping of the other shoe.

The previously mentioned Strunk and White is a treasure, which is pretty much persona non grata in current “pedagogy”. For those addicted to literacy, in English at any rate, Fowler’s “Dictionary of Modern English Usage” is probably the last word, has been ever since it was published, and enjoyable to read through as well, as the author can be wonderfully cranky as well as being pointedly correct. No shilly shallying here. The 1965 edition is probably the best, earlier ones good as well, but avoid the later editions which have been somewhat dumbed down to match current sensibilities.
Yes, languages evolve, but they can also degenerate, and it’s best not to confuse one with the other.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Am personally surprised we have reached 15 posts and no one, usually a high school teacher these days, has yet said, “It don’t matter.” Or, “You knew what I meant dint you?”
The fact no one has yet done that cheers me, though I await the dropping of the other shoe.

The previously mentioned Strunk and White is a treasure, which is pretty much persona non grata in current “pedagogy”. For those addicted to literacy, in English at any rate, Fowler’s “Dictionary of Modern English Usage” is probably the last word, has been ever since it was published, and enjoyable to read through as well, as the author can be wonderfully cranky as well as being pointedly correct. No shilly shallying here. The 1965 edition is probably the best, earlier ones good as well, but avoid the later editions which have been somewhat dumbed down to match current sensibilities.
Yes, languages evolve, but they can also degenerate, and it’s best not to confuse one with the other.

Larry, I used to be a high school teacher!

 

[CMur12]

Well, Larry, this may be the other shoe. 😀


I have a BA in languages and linguistics, including studies in the history of English, German, and Romance languages. I have a good sense of English and I have proofread term papers for a number of colleagues working on masters degrees.


Linguists will tell you that language is a dynamic process. Structures change; new words arise (nothing wrong with "impactful;" it conveys its meaning in a way that no other word has before it); other words fall out of use; even pronunciation undergoes changes. (Neither modern Americans nor modern British sound like Shakespeare.) Our culture - and indeed that of the world - is in great upheaval, and it makes sense that this chaos would show up in the language.


I have my own pet peeves. It irritates me when people use "I" when they should use "me;" when people use the simple past for the past participle (we used to have two past participles - one for the singular and one for the plural); along with apostrophes, homonyms, and the rest.


It should be noted that much of formal English grammar is based on Latin, and not on English. In spite of school teachers trying to hammer this unnatural grammar into our heads for centuries, true English has persisted.


If I have to write a formal treatise or deliver a formal address to an erudite audience, I can use formal Latin-based English. Otherwise, I speak English that is based on English.


As a linguist, I believe that standard language/grammar is a starting point, and not an end point. By coloring outside of the lines of standard grammar, by exercising "poetic license," the expressive potential of any language can be expanded significantly.


- Murray