Bill Pierce
Well-known
I'm sure many of you have already seen this article in the Wall St. Journal
http://wsj.com/article/SB122152103387739231.html?mod=article-outset-box
which says, among other things, "The quirky company, which helped create modern photography in the early 20th century, stuck too long with film technology and now faces mounting losses and sinking sales."
It's an interesting article if for no other reason than both film and digital Leicas probably depend on Leica's success in the digital world.
As always, your thoughts.....
Bill
http://wsj.com/article/SB122152103387739231.html?mod=article-outset-box
which says, among other things, "The quirky company, which helped create modern photography in the early 20th century, stuck too long with film technology and now faces mounting losses and sinking sales."
It's an interesting article if for no other reason than both film and digital Leicas probably depend on Leica's success in the digital world.
As always, your thoughts.....
Bill
mhv
Registered User
"Leica hopes its M8 digital range-finder camera will revive its fortunes."
A rather moot point since the introduction of the S2...
A rather moot point since the introduction of the S2...
Bill Pierce
Well-known
Does the expensive and somewhat limited M8 and the introduction of the S2 mean that Leitz is no longer interested in the journalist, the documentarian and the many amateurs who practiced a stylistically similar photography with their families and their lives?
It almost seems as if the company is building cameras to be used by the acting chairman.
Bill
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I just think they see that selling mainly to "the journalist, the documentarian" etc. is not going to make for a sustainable business plan. If their digital products can sustain ongoing film M and R production, great for us all.
Bill Pierce
Well-known
I agree. Just selling to the journalist and the documentarian is not going to keep Leitz alive. It was the amateur who also appreciated the small size, the ability to use available light and still come up with high quality images, the sheer pleasure of well designed and built equipment,e.t.c. that generated enough volume to keep the company alive.
But these new Leica products are not going to sustain ongoing film M and R production. Available film and processing and some of the supplies and technology involved in making prints from film are diminishing. Digital is not going to sustain film.
This is sad. I love the colors and look of Kodachrome . I love the range of tones I can capture with a black-and-white negative. And my 8x10 view is "sharper" than my digitals. But the ability to get supplies and service are already diminishing in all those catagories. And the situation isn't going to get better.
Bill
Bill Pierce
Well-known
BillBingham2
Registered User
I am hoping that Leica will look to the M4/3s format as their way back into a reasonably priced system for journalists and Leica enthusiasts. While there are some reasons why you want a larger sensor, a year or two and some geeks will make it good enough. I think that with the right adapter you can use M lenses on a M4/3s system, but that's just a guess (I feel about 95% right on this one).
For me, the $64,000 question is will Panasonic/Leica and Olympus design the controls for one of these systems so that they are as easy as a Leica M7 is? One rocker to control shutter speed, another for aperture, another for ISO/ASA/DIN (sensitivity). Just about everything else can be under one of those dreaded sub-menus (from HE11).
The S2 is a great approach to appeal to the DMF folks who need LOTS of those silly little points (Giga Pixels). It will keep cash coming while they refactor the rest of the company. I thought they should dump the R line, damm I was wrong.
Fingers crossed!
B2 (;->
For me, the $64,000 question is will Panasonic/Leica and Olympus design the controls for one of these systems so that they are as easy as a Leica M7 is? One rocker to control shutter speed, another for aperture, another for ISO/ASA/DIN (sensitivity). Just about everything else can be under one of those dreaded sub-menus (from HE11).
The S2 is a great approach to appeal to the DMF folks who need LOTS of those silly little points (Giga Pixels). It will keep cash coming while they refactor the rest of the company. I thought they should dump the R line, damm I was wrong.
Fingers crossed!
B2 (;->
mhv
Registered User
Yes to your question. I think they are in desperate need to be the hot kid on the block again.
But I don't think it's about catering to the desires of the rich and famous. I think they are making every effort possible to stay relevant. They competition with Hasselblad and Mamiya instead of running after more-features-than-you-can Canon and Nikon.
For a 20-30k$ camera, the S2 seems like a much more reasonable and useful product than the similarly priced Special Editions, which are pure vanity and bling.
Bill Pierce
Well-known
mhv
Registered User
Why thank you, Bill, I did not know I was in such clever spirits 
I must say I felt irresistibly tempted when I saw the new Olympus micro-4/3 Werra-like cameras. It looks like it could finally be a great product for the lightweight/high-quality crowd.
It's still an alpha product, so there's yet no point in complaining about the lack of optical viewfinder with focus confirmation, but that or the DP2 could finally reach the crowd left behind by the DSLR v. P&S dilemma.
I must say I felt irresistibly tempted when I saw the new Olympus micro-4/3 Werra-like cameras. It looks like it could finally be a great product for the lightweight/high-quality crowd.
It's still an alpha product, so there's yet no point in complaining about the lack of optical viewfinder with focus confirmation, but that or the DP2 could finally reach the crowd left behind by the DSLR v. P&S dilemma.
infrequent
Well-known
@Bill Pierce - i think that area is being hashed out currently and for somebody like me who is sitting on the fence, its a source of much anticipation and delight. sigma's DPx range is the most promising development because of the larger sensor. but ricoh certainly has plenty of fans with the GRD and GX-200. of course the olympus micro prototypes are looking promising and we should expect something from pentax soonish as well.
in short, that young cartier-bresson digicam is prolly not here yet. but its coming soonish!
in short, that young cartier-bresson digicam is prolly not here yet. but its coming soonish!
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I'm afraid that what will eventually kill film is the lack of functional analog cameras. It's already getting difficult to get something as mainstream as a Nikon FM properly serviced. And I mean properly, not the hack jobs many 'repair' shops perform.
No functional cameras, equals no film sales.
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Bill Pierce
Well-known
Here's where I think Leica users are lucky. In this country, and I hope everywhere, there are excellent independant repair facilties for Leicas. Don Goldberg and Sherry Krauter have done excellent jobs on my film M's. When Don's father, Norm, a personal hero, was first training his son, he made him take all the measurable plus or minus tolerances out of the lens cams and rangefinders of my Leicas and produce a null-null set of bodies and lenses. I fed bodies and lenses to Norm for this experiment for a long time. Don was already a very good repairman. He was just fine tuning his craft. I got a remarkable set of cameras and a feeling that the Goldberg clan was one of the secret advantages of using Leica.
Here the Leica Historical Society list of independent repair facilities in the U.S..
http://www.lhsa.org/repair.html
Any suggestions for other areas in the world?
Bill
Tuolumne
Veteran
I think most of those people gave up on Leica long ago and are now using one or another dSLR. Much bigger bang for the buck, and much less buck required.
/T
Bill Pierce
Well-known
The basic camera for a journalist has to be versatile and portable. No question the DSLR is the best choice. But every working stiff I know also has specialist tools that do a better job in specific situations that they encounter frequently. No toolbox has just a hammer. Your "screwdriver" may be a smaller camera, a bigger camera, a quieter camera, a camera that works better in dim light or any of a variety of advantages for a specific kind of shooting. That's the disadvantage of being for hire. You can't always shoot the things you love, and you can't always use the same equipment.
Bill
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Very true Bill. Both Sherry and Don have gone over my cameras and IMO they are the best around. I hope both of them are training the next generation, who will take over for them some day.
Gerry Smith at Kindermann (Canada) is also extremely good and quite fast. I put him in the same category as Don and Sherry.
In the UK there is CCR and they have an excellent reputation.
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/
But Kodak and Ilford can't survive on sales to Leica shooters.
They can probably rely on large format shooters for a very long time. Mechanically these cameras are so simple, that they can be kept running by almost anyone with basic mechanical skills. Personally I believe that many of these shooters will return to the techniques of the earliest days of photography, if film should dry up.
Hasselblad claims that they will service V-series cameras, until Sweden turns in to a desert. Time will tell.
Nikon collectors are about as fanatic as they come, so I believe these cameras will be supported for a very long time, but I'm afraid most of these service centers will be in Japan. Here in London I am still trying to find a reliable shop. As it turns out the largest independent service center in town is totally unreliable, unless you were having a digital serviced...
Harry Fleenor in southern California is among the best Rollei technicians in the world, but once he retires, who will service my Rolleiflex?
www.rolleirepairs.com
So, I am worried.
I have a D700 for digital work, but don't love it. I use it as little as possible.
I see the world in Tri-X and can't imagine the day when that would change. Frankly the loss of film would be a disaster for me, because my personal style and vision is heavily dependent on it.
I hope that Leica is true to their word and will continue to service these cameras as long as there is the demand.
I figure that if worse comes to worse I can probably figure out how to keep a IIIc running on my own. Not as nice as an M, but everyone from HCB to Eugene Smith managed to turn out some pretty good work with these. The Nikon F is also fairly simple to service.
Gerry Smith at Kindermann (Canada) is also extremely good and quite fast. I put him in the same category as Don and Sherry.
In the UK there is CCR and they have an excellent reputation.
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/
But Kodak and Ilford can't survive on sales to Leica shooters.
They can probably rely on large format shooters for a very long time. Mechanically these cameras are so simple, that they can be kept running by almost anyone with basic mechanical skills. Personally I believe that many of these shooters will return to the techniques of the earliest days of photography, if film should dry up.
Hasselblad claims that they will service V-series cameras, until Sweden turns in to a desert. Time will tell.
Nikon collectors are about as fanatic as they come, so I believe these cameras will be supported for a very long time, but I'm afraid most of these service centers will be in Japan. Here in London I am still trying to find a reliable shop. As it turns out the largest independent service center in town is totally unreliable, unless you were having a digital serviced...
Harry Fleenor in southern California is among the best Rollei technicians in the world, but once he retires, who will service my Rolleiflex?
www.rolleirepairs.com
So, I am worried.
I have a D700 for digital work, but don't love it. I use it as little as possible.
I see the world in Tri-X and can't imagine the day when that would change. Frankly the loss of film would be a disaster for me, because my personal style and vision is heavily dependent on it.
I hope that Leica is true to their word and will continue to service these cameras as long as there is the demand.
I figure that if worse comes to worse I can probably figure out how to keep a IIIc running on my own. Not as nice as an M, but everyone from HCB to Eugene Smith managed to turn out some pretty good work with these. The Nikon F is also fairly simple to service.