rxmd
May contain traces of nut
I don't know how you go on about photographing people, but I currently use a 5Dmk2 and either a 24mm TS/E or a 24-105 (in other words big lenses) for taking street portraits. I just walk around asking people nicely if it's OK to take their picture, and if it is, I get the picture, and if it isn't it would be unethical anyway.
No one is scared by the camera, they are scared by the photographer.
Spyro
Well-known
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
I don't think so - all I do is ask people nicely, can't see anything wrong with that.
Spyro
Well-known
Nothing wrong if you like this sort of photo.
I just dont think it's unethical not to ask, as long as it's a public place.
I just dont think it's unethical not to ask, as long as it's a public place.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
That's not what I meant - if I ask, and people say no, it would be unethical to take the photo anyway.
Spyro
Well-known
dunno man... no more unethical than people driving around in cars and polluting when there's pubilc transport available. I dont see anyone asking for permission.
willie_901
Veteran
Interesting chat about ethics.
Do you believe all government,and private organizations that photograph you without your permission are unethical? I live in an urban/suburban environment and when I leave home I'm photographed hundreds of times. Every intersection and many commercial establishments of all types record my image when I would prefer they don't.
I rarely ask for permission. When I do I tend to pose the subject(s). I foillow the laws on privacy and I think if I act within the law I am ethical. At the same time there are subjects I have no interest in photographing (obese, handicapped, homeless, injured, sad). Of course I others have a completely different code of personal ethics and obviously they will behave accordingly.
Then there's the Winogrand method. If the camera is discreet and the photographer is fast, the subject has no idea they are being photographed until it's over. Being fast doesn't mean you can focus quickly, it means you can create an interesting composition in an instant. The X-Pro 1 will be a discrete platform. I think the original post comparing it to a large DSLR was refering to the Winogrand approach.
Do you believe all government,and private organizations that photograph you without your permission are unethical? I live in an urban/suburban environment and when I leave home I'm photographed hundreds of times. Every intersection and many commercial establishments of all types record my image when I would prefer they don't.
I rarely ask for permission. When I do I tend to pose the subject(s). I foillow the laws on privacy and I think if I act within the law I am ethical. At the same time there are subjects I have no interest in photographing (obese, handicapped, homeless, injured, sad). Of course I others have a completely different code of personal ethics and obviously they will behave accordingly.
Then there's the Winogrand method. If the camera is discreet and the photographer is fast, the subject has no idea they are being photographed until it's over. Being fast doesn't mean you can focus quickly, it means you can create an interesting composition in an instant. The X-Pro 1 will be a discrete platform. I think the original post comparing it to a large DSLR was refering to the Winogrand approach.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
The point I was making was that I do ask for permission anyway. If people, upon being asked, say that they would prefer not to be photographed, and then I would go and photograph them anyway even though they expressly told me that personally they would prefer me not to, then I would indeed consider that unethical.
The point that Spyro (and you with the Winogrand method) are making is more in the direction that I might not have to ask them in the first place; after all we're in a public space and I could just snap their picture without asking. That, however, is an entirely different question.
The place I'm doing this is not Western Europe, the US or Australia. This year I've been taking pictures mostly in Central Asia, Xinjiang and western China. I can't just go and snap pictures of women in the streets in Kashgar without massively offending them if they notice. I can try to do stealthy shooting with a taped Leica (along with moral justifications of the kind of "well, they live in a police state and are photographed by thousands of security cameras every day anyway"), but apart from the risk of getting into trouble I don't like the aesthetic of "grab shots" very much because there's no interaction with the subject (in fact the interaction is deliberately avoided)
Instead, I try being polite, which admittedly does carry the risk of being refused, but in general I think people appreciate that their personal preferences are being cared about, and also you get to talk with a lot of interesting people.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Seems like a good policy, and a good discipline, for the pictures you want to make. I do that sometimes. Other times -- for instance, when the point of the picture is a large group of people rushing somewhere, or where the behavior of people as a group is the point of the picture -- it is impractical. I do think that for street photography in general I would rather take my M9, rather than my D3, although I saw an interesting argument last week on the Leica User's Group for going the other way completely: that is using a tripod to demonstrate your intention to pedestrians and thereby disappear off their radar.
However (and to veer back to Dave's original point) I think that the form factor of the X-Pro 1 looks promising from a street-photo perspective. If the image quality and feel-in-the-hand work, it will be hard to resist. (FWIW: also want to see how early adopters find using Leica glass on it . . .)
celluloidprop
Well-known
I'm not arguing that it's unethical to photograph people in public places (though there are times I would question the ethics), but there is a prime difference here: display.
Presumably, when you take photographs, they are to meant to be displayed - on RFF, Flickr, in a book, in prints, etc.. CCTVs, intersection cameras and such are not generally piped anywhere for public display.
A bit apples and oranges.
David_Manning
Well-known
So, I'd STILL rather carry around an X-Pro 1 with lenses than a D3 with lenses or zooms when I'm out traveling. If it's even just equivalent to the X100 in low light ability and focus, it's going to be a great camera system.
I just FEEL like I can blend into the background better with a small camera body than a large one. It's probably just me, and you can shoot basically the same with both systems, but I feel like I attract less of the wrong kinds of attention with a rangefinder-style body (in my case, X100 as opposed to 5DmkII).
And again, if you need a dSLR, buy a dSLR.
I just FEEL like I can blend into the background better with a small camera body than a large one. It's probably just me, and you can shoot basically the same with both systems, but I feel like I attract less of the wrong kinds of attention with a rangefinder-style body (in my case, X100 as opposed to 5DmkII).
And again, if you need a dSLR, buy a dSLR.