sweathog
Well-known
Hello, RFF gang! It's been a while since I've been on here but I have pressing questions to ask.
I'm looking to find some way to get back into regular shooting; digital seems to be the realistic option, but I'm still looking for something RFish. I've been pointed in the direction of the X-Pro 1 and think it might be a strong contender based on the reviews I've read (despite the limitations it seems to have).
So, I now want to ask those who have been using it what your opinions are. Handling, glass, workflow etc. Is it suited to street? Any and all comments would be lovely (whilst I trawl through this subforum for more feedback).
Thanks, gang!
I'm looking to find some way to get back into regular shooting; digital seems to be the realistic option, but I'm still looking for something RFish. I've been pointed in the direction of the X-Pro 1 and think it might be a strong contender based on the reviews I've read (despite the limitations it seems to have).
So, I now want to ask those who have been using it what your opinions are. Handling, glass, workflow etc. Is it suited to street? Any and all comments would be lovely (whilst I trawl through this subforum for more feedback).
Thanks, gang!
shawn
Veteran
XPro1 is still a very nice camera. With the imminent release of a X Pro 2 there are so amazing deals available on the X Pro 1 body only or body with lenses.
Shawn
Shawn
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I am getting used to it - the menus, options, etc. I have discovered that adapted manual focus lenses can produce really nice results. However only stop down mode of mf lenses offer aperture flexibility, and that is awkward with many if not most. Not that you said you contemplate using legacy lenses, I just thought I'd offer that observation.
One conclusion, at least for me, is to just use native lenses in AF mode unless you can work out snap mode for quick work such as street. For such situations I also turn off the LCD mode. My thinking is it saves the battery, but I have no empirical evidence. Also, buy extra batteries - the X-Pro doesn't have great battery life. For third party batteries I have found UltraPro to work well, Halcyon not at all. I sourced both from Amazon.
One conclusion, at least for me, is to just use native lenses in AF mode unless you can work out snap mode for quick work such as street. For such situations I also turn off the LCD mode. My thinking is it saves the battery, but I have no empirical evidence. Also, buy extra batteries - the X-Pro doesn't have great battery life. For third party batteries I have found UltraPro to work well, Halcyon not at all. I sourced both from Amazon.
back alley
IMAGES
it's a great camera for rf users…i had one but sold it simply because it didn't have built in diopter focus control and my eyes never did adjust to it…even with th screw in diopter.
sweathog
Well-known
That is interesting and gives me a follow up question; I've recently started wearing glasses (turns out I've been blind for a long time), and whilst I do not need to wear them I do try to in order to avoid headaches - how forgiving is the camera for glasses wearers?
sweathog
Well-known
Thanks for the heads up about batteries, definitely useful information.
Whilst I hadn't actively contemplated using legacy lenses, it is something I was curious about.
What you've said about manual focus with the native lenses has me slightly perturbed, is it not great then? And how good is the AF then?
sweathog
Well-known
Hi Shawn,
the looming X-Pro 2 is definitely one of the reasons I've been thinking about the X-Pro 1 as the prices are definitely more in my bracket than they used to be.
Spanik
Well-known
Honestly, I wouldn't bother. AF isn't great (my 12 year old 300D is far better), shutter lag is important, exposure is hit and miss, ergonomics are a disaster, menus a mess (but not as bad as Sony), the EVF is a joke (slow, washed colour and overexposed). The optical stabilisation of the lenses just isn't up to much.
After using several of their medium format camera's I'm still wondering how they dared to release that thing.
After using several of their medium format camera's I'm still wondering how they dared to release that thing.
sweathog
Well-known
Well... This makes things more interesting. With that in mind, what would you recommend instead?
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
::a few observations that may be helpful.
1/if you want to shoot without glasses, Nikon screw diopters fit. Best if you're primarily near or farsighted (simple -/+). I use -2.5/-3 on every camera that permits it, because glasses get in the way.
2/AF matters only if you stick to native lenses; it matters less with the (inexpensive) 18/2, more with the longer or faster lenses. A useful common street-oriented trick is to switch on manual focus, assign AF to the relevant back button, and let the shutter release do what it does best.
3/adapted lenses allow the XP to behave more like a filmcam--right hand speed/shutter, left focus/aperture. 21-50mm Skopars, M or cheaper ltm, remain petite. Pen F lenses are great--the X and Nex cams are logical inheritors of the half-frame lenses--; I use a 25/2.8 and 40/1.4 as a 35/60. SLR lenses add bulk with their tuberous adapters.
4/I started with an XE1 because its diopter is built in, and I don't mind EVF. And evf is required to best use most adapted lenses--unless you shoot 21mm/f8 or have a set hyperfocal practice for any lens. The XPro's OVF supports only AF/native lenses. I bought an XPro cheap last spring, just to compare, and enjoyed it--but sold it here this fall and kept the XE.
Your intuition and thinking seem plenty sound to me. Good luck and enjoy.
1/if you want to shoot without glasses, Nikon screw diopters fit. Best if you're primarily near or farsighted (simple -/+). I use -2.5/-3 on every camera that permits it, because glasses get in the way.
2/AF matters only if you stick to native lenses; it matters less with the (inexpensive) 18/2, more with the longer or faster lenses. A useful common street-oriented trick is to switch on manual focus, assign AF to the relevant back button, and let the shutter release do what it does best.
3/adapted lenses allow the XP to behave more like a filmcam--right hand speed/shutter, left focus/aperture. 21-50mm Skopars, M or cheaper ltm, remain petite. Pen F lenses are great--the X and Nex cams are logical inheritors of the half-frame lenses--; I use a 25/2.8 and 40/1.4 as a 35/60. SLR lenses add bulk with their tuberous adapters.
4/I started with an XE1 because its diopter is built in, and I don't mind EVF. And evf is required to best use most adapted lenses--unless you shoot 21mm/f8 or have a set hyperfocal practice for any lens. The XPro's OVF supports only AF/native lenses. I bought an XPro cheap last spring, just to compare, and enjoyed it--but sold it here this fall and kept the XE.
Your intuition and thinking seem plenty sound to me. Good luck and enjoy.
Filzkoeter
stray animal
I've got a X-E1, but it's more or less the same camera minus the hybrid finder.
Honestly, it's a nice camera. AF is ok (even in low light), shutter lag is non-existent (from half pressed position), auto-exposure works great (and the raw files have a TON of information, especially in the shadows. I compared them to a friend's Canon 5D MKIII... the Fuji RAWs could be pushed much more), ergonomics are great (feels like a normal camera, with real dials), menus are ok + you don't really have to access them often.
Honestly, it's a nice camera. AF is ok (even in low light), shutter lag is non-existent (from half pressed position), auto-exposure works great (and the raw files have a TON of information, especially in the shadows. I compared them to a friend's Canon 5D MKIII... the Fuji RAWs could be pushed much more), ergonomics are great (feels like a normal camera, with real dials), menus are ok + you don't really have to access them often.
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
I shoot mine with glasses on and it's not a big problem. One thing I like is that it has live view and I find that I am using that more than the VF so long as ambient light allows. The other thing that surprised me is that I am using the EVF nearly 100% of the time.
back alley
IMAGES
i've been wearing glasses just about since i started breathing…in the old days they were thick black plastic frames with big fat lenses…point being i've always had to make them work with the things i wanted to do…be it sports or swimming or…
i could have made it work with the xpro and did for awhile but i'm an old fart now and i go for the conviences of life whenever possible.
CliveC
Well-known
The EVF is definitely very poor when compared to the offerings of today, autofocus is slow and manual focus useless (focus by wire with poor focus peaking). HOWEVER, in good light and with strobe/fast shutter speed, it is very capable of producing really detailed images.
Because of it's problems, I really don't see it as a street photography camera. Portraiture, yes, but not action.
Because of it's problems, I really don't see it as a street photography camera. Portraiture, yes, but not action.
carylee2002
Newbie
I use my xpro1 with voigtlander lenses and found that if you shoot manual all the time with focus peaking and using the sweet 16 method...i found to be very effective. But you need to use hyperlocal distance focusing.
willie_901
Veteran
The X-Pro 1 has one issue. The in-camera CPU was only adequate when the camera was released and now it seems sluggish compared to newer cameras. The primary impact of the X-Pro 1 CPU is on AF performance. In low-light levels with low-contrast subjects, the AF is adequate. Other cameras have quicker AF performance. The AF speed is also dependent of which Fujinon lens is in use. Newer Fujinon lenses have faster AF technologies. The X-Pro 1's virtual focusing aids used to evaluate focus, tweak focus or just focus the camera manually are limited by the slower CPU as well. So, this is all the bad news.
In normal light when subjects display reasonable levels of contrast, the X-Pro 1 AF works well. It is not sluggish. In fact it is possible to use the X-Pro 1 with essentially no lag (0.050 sec.) or with significant lag (0.63 sec.) This brings us to the heart of the matter. The X-Pro1 takes some time to learn because it is a complex camera. Some effort is required to figure out how to optimize its performance. Trying to force the X-Pro 1 to work exactly how one's Canon or Nikon DLSR worked will be frustrating. You have to adapt.
The X-Pro 1 has two finder modes (OVF or EVF) and three focusing modes, S,C or M). This means there are six different ways to use the camera. Some of what you read about the camera will be based on out-of-date firmware. In the end you have to figure out how to set the camera up to match how you work. This requires some effort. I ended up with four basic modes: OVF normal light, EVF normal light, OVF low light and EVF low light.
I found the X-Pro 1 to be a fine street camera. I mostly used the 27/2.8 or 18/2 Fujinon lenses. I occasionally used the 35/1.4 Fujinon too. I choose to operate the AF manually via the AFL/AFE button. For most street work I focused as I focused SLRs and RF cameras by using the focus and recompose method. I usually used the OVF. For me the X-Pro 1 was a virtual or simulated RF camera. I only used raw files and typically set ISO to 400. Then my only worry was to avoid overexposing the sensor. Underexposure was ignored because it was remedied in post-production. The X-Pro 's data stream is pseudo-ISO invariant, so there is no disadvantage to increasing global brightness in post-production compared to in-camera signal amplification.
Fo me the X-Pro1 produced nice color raw files up to two stops of under exposure (equivalent to ISO 800). With careful exposure and reasonable amounts of noise filtering, color files exposed at 3 stops below ISO 200 (equivalent to ISO 1600) were often acceptable. At ISO 1600 the data stream switched from electronic signal amplification to pure digital multiplication. So I never set ISO above 1600. Of course completely different techniques are required for those who prefer in-camera JPEG files. Sensor exposures above those equivalent to ISO 800, I usually rendered the X-Pro1 images in B&W. The four LR CC Fujifilm Camera Profiles work rather well for B&W rendering. I also use the NIK Silver Effex Pro 2 B&W plug in. To my eye, the X-Pro 1 raw files turned out to bit better than those from the Nikon D700.
I find that my LR post-production raw rendering workflow is very different than the one I used for Bayer raw rendering. The LR Development sliders respond differently and have different effects. For instance careful adjustment of color temperature can make a huge difference in overall image IQ. The sharpening parameters are also very different. The Fujifilm Camera Profiles co-developed by Adobe and Fujifilm do improve IQ as well. I like to maximize sensor exposure so often I completely suppress Highlights and push with the Exposure Shadow sliders. This is very different than other raw file rendering methods I found useful with NEF and RW2 raw rendering.
The Fujinon lenses are excellent. Their price
erformance ratio is satisfying. At one point I owned seven Fujinon lenses. Non of them disappointed me and some of them are pleasant surprises compared to the pro-level Nikkor lenses I once owned. What I enjoy most, compared to the Nikkors, are the relatively low levels of longitudinal CA in their out-of focus rendering. I recently sold my daily carry, the X-Pro 1 (and some other stuff) and picked up the X100T on sale at Pop Flash. I really enjoy using the OVF.My main motivations for switching to the X100T were: It was easy to get in and out of may small man purse; the camera controls and operation are more similar to the X-T1; and the raw signal-to-noise ratio is about 1/2 stop higher. The latter means I can render raw in color at ISO 1600 more often compared to the X-Pro 1.
sweathog
Well-known
Thanks all for some more interesting reading. Definitely giving me a lot more food for thought than what I have already found online (the advantage of talking to regular shooters, I suppose).
I would assume the later firmware, then, has improved things slightly.
As I have no aversion whatsoever to shooting 'manual' it seems maybe I should explore the route of adapted lenses; as far as adapters go, are there any manufacturers I should avoid, and are any particularly good?
willie_901, how much playing around did it take you before you settled on those four modes? How steep is the learning curve?
I would assume the later firmware, then, has improved things slightly.
As I have no aversion whatsoever to shooting 'manual' it seems maybe I should explore the route of adapted lenses; as far as adapters go, are there any manufacturers I should avoid, and are any particularly good?
willie_901, how much playing around did it take you before you settled on those four modes? How steep is the learning curve?
willie_901
Veteran
The most recent firmware makes a huge difference. Almost everything you read before that firmware release is obsolete.
With adapters it seems there are two approaches. Buy an expensive adapter and move on. The most expensive adapter (the Fujifilm product) allows one to store in-camera lens correction parameters. Or, buy the lest expensive adapter you can find and see how things go. If you are lucky, it will be the only one you need. Of you are not, then keep trying extremely inexpensive adapters until you get one that works as well as an expensive product.
The learning curve is steep. I can't quantify it because I started with the X100 when it first arrive in N.A. and because the firmware updates provided new opportunities to explore. The manual and firmware update manuals are useful. If you buy a X-Pro 1 PM me for more info.
The more you try to force the X-Pro 1 to operate as other cameras you've owned or own, the worse it is. My advice is to disable all automation and energy saving modes. At first only use the camera manually with in either EVF or OVF mode. I started with M focus mode using the AF manually with the AFL/AEL button. This is similar to the focus and recompose method.One important parameter for AF operation focus-area size. If you are unfamiliar with focus peaking, it may take a while to understand how it works. When usage becomes second nature start adding automation features you value. If you like to use a shutter half-press, then I would become familiar with AFS mode. I suggest you ignore AFC mode altogether.
Then you can switch to the other finder mode and start the process over again.
By this time you will understand what's going on and then you can create usage techniques that are compatible with your goals. One of the first automation function I recommend is the auto-exposure bracketing. I use either 1/3 or 2/3 stop steps. This is most useful in low-light when shadow regions are important. In other situations it protects against overexposure
sweathog
Well-known
Damn, and this is why I love RFF. So much information. Thanks, and I certainly will drop you a line for more (can there really be more information?) when/if I proceed with the purchase.
RichardPhoto
Established
I had an X-Pro1 for a short while. Like a lot of cameras it gets a bad reputation because of pixelpeeping keyboard warriors. Sure, there are a few negative points - but every camera is a balance of usability, cost, and suitability.
I would recommend visiting a store and trying out the X-Pro1. You'll know very quickly if it's OK for you or not. The 'flaws' will either be an issue or not - just like all other cameras.
As you're in the UK, it's worth keeping an eye on the used section on the WEX website. They seem to get a lot of X-Pro1s in for trade. 12 month warranty on used and good condition X-Pro1s go for about £170. If the camera is OK for your needs then it's a seriously good value secondhand purchase.
I think it's also worth considering the important factor of Fuji lenses and future upgrades. There's a lot of good quality Fuji lenses and other bodies. I think Fuji X is a great system to get into and the future looks solid and good.
I would recommend visiting a store and trying out the X-Pro1. You'll know very quickly if it's OK for you or not. The 'flaws' will either be an issue or not - just like all other cameras.
As you're in the UK, it's worth keeping an eye on the used section on the WEX website. They seem to get a lot of X-Pro1s in for trade. 12 month warranty on used and good condition X-Pro1s go for about £170. If the camera is OK for your needs then it's a seriously good value secondhand purchase.
I think it's also worth considering the important factor of Fuji lenses and future upgrades. There's a lot of good quality Fuji lenses and other bodies. I think Fuji X is a great system to get into and the future looks solid and good.