noimmunity
scratch my niche
Spyro posted this on another thread and I think with his permission that it is worth having a separate thread about this.
I'm totally with ya, Spyro. The main reason I jumped at the Fuji was VF. The other reasons were the form factor, the low light capability, and Fuji's promised lens map.
The XT-1 sounds like a big improvement, go Fuji!, but it's not what I want from this system.
Unlike Spyro, my needs for the system are really focused around the normal to short tele range. For landscape I'd prefer something else.
But I'm in no rush and I'm expecting that there will be an XP2 and that Fuji will get it right, in every way.
You know, that X-T1 does looks awesome, and it has spurred all kinds of thoughts of potential gear combinations in my mind, which became a little confusing and made me think about the basics and what I really wanted from a camera system, and Fuji. It all became a bit philosophical in the end
What I found is that the main reason I got in the system and I'm still in it, is still none other than the xpro. The dinosaur. I mean the X-T1 is fantastic, but if this was all what I wanted I would've probably jumped to the Oly Em1 or A7 or a small Pentax a while ago. Others too make that kind of camera. Fact is though, nobody else makes a digital reincarnation of the Contax G, a camera system with a windowfinder and AF. This combo puts me in a fast and fluid picture taking mode without the interference of a digital evf, and I know the end result is a certain kind of photo that I dont get otherwise. Getting an X-T1 and keeping my xe2 seems like an overlapping of shooting styles, but keeping my xpro instead doesnt. Sort of like having a digital Contax G and Contax RTS, and sharing the same lenses... how good is that? And you know what else, maybe the xpro is 3 generations behind now, but at the end of the day the photo coming out of it is pretty much the same quality as the XT1. Same sensor- same lens, only the subject viewing and focusing changes.
It sort of starts to form in my mind like this: Xpro1 for wides, rarely AF but mostly zone focusing (my 14 and 23 with their beautiful MF rings and distance scales scream to be zone focused), street photography, landscapes. In fewer words, typical RF subject matter. X-T1 for when I need fps, fast AF, longer & heavier lenses: my 55-200 really needs to sit in the middle of my face rather than trying to balance it with my left hand to the right of my face... big zoom lenses need SLR-type designs. Even the little 18-55 looks more in place with the X-T1, and it's such a high quality lens for what it is. And lastly, if the split screen works as well as they say, maybe a speed booster and a couple of OM or Contax/Yashica primes (there's an EF->X speedbooster now by Kipon, and you can easily adapt both OM and CY to EF)
Still wrapping my head around it, we'll see... Anyway I'm not ordering this camera blind, I need to have a look in person first, so there's still some time to think until it hits the shelves.
I'm totally with ya, Spyro. The main reason I jumped at the Fuji was VF. The other reasons were the form factor, the low light capability, and Fuji's promised lens map.
The XT-1 sounds like a big improvement, go Fuji!, but it's not what I want from this system.
Unlike Spyro, my needs for the system are really focused around the normal to short tele range. For landscape I'd prefer something else.
But I'm in no rush and I'm expecting that there will be an XP2 and that Fuji will get it right, in every way.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
It seems that Fuji has two goals. The first is to be commercially successful. And it might be that the best way to do that is to make CSCs with faux SLR styling.
But they have also expressed time and again the importance of establishing brand loyalty. So I don't think they would ever consider dropping the X-Pro completely.
Personally, I'd prefer to wait until 2015 for an X-Pro2 with the new organic sensor, plus all the other developments in EVF and focus.
But they have also expressed time and again the importance of establishing brand loyalty. So I don't think they would ever consider dropping the X-Pro completely.
Personally, I'd prefer to wait until 2015 for an X-Pro2 with the new organic sensor, plus all the other developments in EVF and focus.
Dennis.Carlson
Expect Grain
Can someone explain to me what a organic sensor is?
Spyro
Well-known
I'll just keep the xpro1 I guess... I was shooting a contax G1 for over a decade after it was discontinued.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Here is a cut & paste. There is a very interesting thread over at the Fuji X Forum, too.
Panasonic and Fuji worked together on a new kind of organic sensor. The new sensor reputedly has the following advantages over conventional sensors:
1) it has only 1/6 of the thickness of the current sensors
2) Increased Dynamic range of 88DB
3) 1,2 times more sensitivity
4) range of incident angles of 60 degrees, efficiently utilizing light entering at an angle for faithful color reproduction with no color mixing. It also gives greater flexibility in lens designs, facilitating the reduction of overall camera size.
Here is the Press release (via Fujifilm):
FUJIFILM Corporation (President: Shigehiro Nakajima) and Panasonic Corporation (President: Kazuhiro Tsuga) have developed organic CMOS image sensor technology that uses an organic photoelectric conversion layer with a photoelectric conversion property at the light receiving section of an image sensor to achieve performance beyond that of conventional image sensors**. Applying this technology to the image sensors of digital cameras and other imaging devices expands its dynamic range*** and enhances sensitivity*4 further to prevent highlight clipping in bright scenes and capture a dark subject with vivid colors and rich textures.
The industry has put into continuous efforts to explore image sensor technologies for increasing their number of pixels. This has dramatically improved sensor resolutions, but, in order to further boost image quality, it is necessary to expand the dynamic range, enhance sensitivity and prevent cross-talk or color mixing between pixels. Panasonic took advantage of its semiconductor device technology to boost image quality for its high-performance image sensors. Fujifilm, on the other hand, has developed highly-reliable organic photoelectric conversion layer with high absorption coefficient to be used on a sensor’s light receiving section instead of silicon photodiode*5 in its effort to build a new image sensor technology.
In the latest collaboration, Fujifilm and Panasonic have combined Fujifilm’s organic photoelectric conversion layer technology with Panasonic’s semiconductor device technology to jointly develop an organic CMOS image sensor that outperforms conventional image sensors. The new organic CMOS image sensor offers the industry’s highest dynamic range of 88dB, advanced sensitivity 1.2 times more sensitive than conventional sensors** and broader range of incident angle*6 to enable the production of more sensitive and compact cameras with better image quality.
The two companies will promote the application of this organic CMOS image sensor technology to a wide range of products including security cameras, in-vehicle cameras, mobile device and digital cameras.
Fujifilm and Panasonic will present the research results at the 2013 Symposium on VLSI Technology (VLSI2013) to be held in Kyoto on June 11, and the 2013 International Image Sensor Workshop to be held in Utah, U.S.A. on June 15.
•*Performance of the light receiving section of image sensors, as of June 11, 2013 according to Panasonic data.
•**Estimation from Panasonic image sensors
•***Range of light that can be recorded (ratio between the brightest and darkest areas recorded)
•*4The sensitivity of image sensors refers to the conversion ratio of light into electric signals. The greater the sensitivity is, the clearer you can capture low-light scenes.
•*5A type of photo detector that senses incident light, installed for each image sensor pixel to convert light into electric signals
•*6Range of incident light angles for efficient conversion into electric signals
Overview of the newly-developed organic CMOS image sensor technology
A conventional image sensor consists of a silicon photodiode for capturing light, metal interconnect, color filter and on-chip micro-lens. The newly-developed organic CMOS image sensor technology uses organic photoelectric conversion layer with high absorption coefficient instead of the silicon photodiode, reducing the thickness of the light receiving section down to 0.5 microns, i.e. one severalth of the thickness of a silicon photodiode. This structure provides the following benefits:
1.(1)Industry’s highest dynamic range of 88dB to prevent highlight clipping and produce a vivid and texture-rich image even in low light
Panasonic’s semiconductor device technology has improved the signal saturation value*7 by four folds compared to that of conventional image sensors. Coupled with the newly-developed noise-cancelling circuit, the sensor technology provides the industry’s highest dynamic range of 88dB, preventing highlight clipping in bright scenes and capturing a vivid and texture-rich image in low light.•*7The maximum amount of electric signals that can be handled. Receiving a signal greater than this value leads to highlight clipping.
1.(2)1.2 times higher sensitivity than conventional sensors to capture clear images even in low light
The transistors and metal interconnects in each pixel, fabricated using Panasonic’s semiconductor device technology, are coated with photoelectric conversion layer, developed using Fujifilm’s organic material technology. The area of the light receiving section becomes limited in conventional image sensors because of the existence of metal interconnects and the need to form light shield film to prevent light incidence into areas other than the photodiode in each pixel. However, the organic CMOS image sensor technology coats the sensor with organic film, which can harvest all the light received on the sensor. This boosts sensor sensitivity by 1.2 times compared to conventional sensors to deliver clear images even in low light.
1.(3)Range of incident angle expanded to 60 degrees for faithful color reproduction (See the image sensor illustrations above)
The thickness of the organic film with high absorption coefficient, developed by Fujifilm, has been reduced to just 0.5 microns, or one severalth of the thickness of silicon photodiode in the light receiving section. Since the conventional silicon photodiode measures at least 3 microns in depth, the range of incident angles was limited to around 30 – 40 degrees. The thin film, achieved with the organic CMOS image sensor technology, has enabled the expansion of this range to 60 degrees, efficiently utilizing light entering at an angle for faithful color reproduction with no color mixing. It also gives greater flexibility in lens designs, facilitating the reduction of overall camera size.1.(4)Offering high reliability for broader applications
Fujifilm has developed a process technology to produce inorganic films for protecting the organic film. It prevents the entry of moisture and oxygen into the organic film to safeguard it against performance degradation. The sensor technology has cleared reliability tests involving the application of stress such as temperature, humidity, electrical voltage and light, paving the way for the use of the organic CMOS image sensor in a wide range of applications.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
Jump off a cliff on Mt. Olympus.
No seriously, I'll wager that Fujifilm, the company that puts out software updates on discontinued models, will definitely come out with an updated OVF/EVF model (XP2).
I bought the X-T1 and will buy the X-Pro2 as well... ****, compared to Leica, this stuff is cheap.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I was really attached to the RF/VF, but the cost of the digital Leica finally drove me away.
Still, I really like the brightline VF, and very much want a camera that blends that with a through-the-lens option.
semordnilap
Well-known
In my dreams fuji puts some kind of manual focusing system in the ovf of the xpro2, x200(?), whether through electronically projected aids or...otherwise...
I bought an olympus and we'll see how it goes—no great macro option kept me off the XT-1—but I'll jump in a second if the xpro2 is right. Organic sensor sounds pretty cool, if it's as advertised.
I bought an olympus and we'll see how it goes—no great macro option kept me off the XT-1—but I'll jump in a second if the xpro2 is right. Organic sensor sounds pretty cool, if it's as advertised.
Bike Tourist
Well-known
My X-Pro1 gives me the type VF that an old-timer like me appreciates. I use the OVF for my 14 and 35, the EVF for my 60 and the just-ordered 55-200 when it arrives. The XP1 also allows me to fit a custom diopter to the VF. The range of adjustability of most camera VFs is usually deficient on the + side for some reason.
The X-Pro2, if it happens, will have to offer some compelling advantages.
The X-Pro2, if it happens, will have to offer some compelling advantages.
gavinlg
Veteran
The x-pro2 will definitely happen. The x-pro1 is still the company flagship and they are very proud of it. In a recent interview they said they are waiting until a significant technological advance before they release the 2. I would wager end of this year we will start seeing something about an x-pro2, and it will be very impressive.
willie_901
Veteran
I will continue to use the X-Pro 1 as my every day carry even though I expect to replace two D700s with two X-T-1s for gigs ASAP.
I enjoy using the OVF and switch to the EVF as needed.
If Fujifilm abandons the OVF, then I'll just keep using the X-Pro-1. I had planed to buy a used X-Pro 1 in order to have a back up body. But with the XT-1 and a new X-Pro 1 just a couple of days away via Amazon Prime why bother?
If the X-Pro 1's successor's has an OVF/EVF system, then I'll pick one up.
The Fujifilm X APS-C has transitioned from a one-off niche camera (X-100) into a complete system, (I say complete because I don't need a TTL highly automated multiple flash system). The lenses are just as important as the bodies... and the lenses serve me well.
I enjoy using the OVF and switch to the EVF as needed.
If Fujifilm abandons the OVF, then I'll just keep using the X-Pro-1. I had planed to buy a used X-Pro 1 in order to have a back up body. But with the XT-1 and a new X-Pro 1 just a couple of days away via Amazon Prime why bother?
If the X-Pro 1's successor's has an OVF/EVF system, then I'll pick one up.
The Fujifilm X APS-C has transitioned from a one-off niche camera (X-100) into a complete system, (I say complete because I don't need a TTL highly automated multiple flash system). The lenses are just as important as the bodies... and the lenses serve me well.
NicoM
Well-known
The X-T1 is needed in the lineup. Together with the Pro, weather sealed lenses that are about to come out, it's the only way they're going to ever earn a decent size of market share.
I'm sure they haven't forgotten about uses like you who appreciate the OVF. I'm waiting for the X-Pro2 myself.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
It's all good, folks.
GaryLH
Veteran
I think the current evf aids are going to be as good as it gets vs something that is ovf based..but who knows u could get your wish.
In terms of macros, I gather u are no fan of their 60 macro... U can always use third party adapters and other vendors macros..and/or bellows combos as well.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
Have gas for the xt1.. But hoping to hold out long enough to c what goes on w/ the next gen xp. Given some of the recent hints, I kind of think we could have two xp in the future.
- an apsc version either
-- a xp1s style or true xp2 successor w/ organic sensor
- a ff version that they will give a new name to and maybe a new lens family
As xt1 gets popular, I wonder how many are going to trade in their xe2? I am actually at the point w/ the Fuji and m43 camera system that I use to be ok waiting for the used deals and the fire sales. It is really more about gear head gas these days...
Gary
- an apsc version either
-- a xp1s style or true xp2 successor w/ organic sensor
- a ff version that they will give a new name to and maybe a new lens family
As xt1 gets popular, I wonder how many are going to trade in their xe2? I am actually at the point w/ the Fuji and m43 camera system that I use to be ok waiting for the used deals and the fire sales. It is really more about gear head gas these days...
Gary
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I think for sure they will do both an APS-C successor to the XP-1, and a new body, probably with a fixed lens at first, to ease into FF. Of course there will be a time lag between the two. It's a way to milk the cow.
The key thing, unless you're willing to allocate unlimited resources, is to try to avoid the incremental upgrades. But what I think is incremental might be what the other person has been jonesing for.
daveleo
what?
IMO, the Xpro line is going to continue and move up to cult status, and earn Fuji a premium in the pricing (compared to the XE and XT lines), and could allow them to continue production at a profit. I do see it as their "flagship" APS product line for the future, primarily due to the OVF/EFV combination in an interchangable lens body.
If they make the EVF larger (sim to the XT), it's probably the next "best camera in the world".
(please note the face)
I think the XE & XT formats attack different market niches (SP?) and will draw people away from DSLR and m4/3 formats more than competing with each other or the XPro line.
Producing their wide variety of body designs with the same lens mount is simply brilliant.
Worst case scenario . . . they drop the XPro line and the value of yours shoots through the roof of the cult market !
If they make the EVF larger (sim to the XT), it's probably the next "best camera in the world".
(please note the face)I think the XE & XT formats attack different market niches (SP?) and will draw people away from DSLR and m4/3 formats more than competing with each other or the XPro line.
Producing their wide variety of body designs with the same lens mount is simply brilliant.
Worst case scenario . . . they drop the XPro line and the value of yours shoots through the roof of the cult market ! noimmunity
scratch my niche
Win-win, either way
cidereye
Film Freak
Some people say that Leica is only for rich men, dentists & lawyers these day's. With their pricing who can argue against that?
I'm more than happy with the quality & performance of the Fuji lenses too at their price point. I'll still use my film M gear but I'm more than done with Leica digital after trying it 3 times now and only ending up broke and disappointed.
One of the MAJOR reasons why many people, like myself, are more than happy using Fuji gears is that they listen to what their customers want and act accordingly especially with firmware updates.
Who could ask for more?