Orthogonal
Established
My first post, I couldn't help but pitch in on the conversation of the X-pro1. Maybe my experiences could help with your decision making.
I got a second-hand XP1 around 5 years ago to replace an XE-1, since then it has been around the world no less than 3 times. It has been to deserts, rainforests, up mountains, and was severely abused all the way. To me the cost of the camera was pretty minimal (around $300) so I wasn't all that concerned about the repair costs since I'd just replace it, but in spite of me treating it like a disposable camera it somehow went through everything. It was dropped many, many times; concrete stairs, rock slides, you name it - it has no paint on any of its edges and the strap lugs have nearly worn through. Shots from the camera made it into a few magazines and print publications over the years, some of them full spreads.
A few months ago I was very unhappy to find on a trip that the camera stopped working due to shutter failure. One thing to know about the XP1 is there's no reliable way of finding out the shutter count, but I suspect that I shot well over 100k pics and I have no idea how many the previous owner took. Whattever it is, it was a respectable number that would probably be in line with any pro SLR, just be aware that there will be an amount of luck involved in buying a second hand one regarding shutter life.
I really loved the camera. I was really fond of the form factor, looks, price and lenses (the 35mm 1.4 is my favorite 50mm alongside the Zeiss Planar), but if you've got the funds I can't recommend that you buy it. I strongly recommend the XP2 instead, you get a lot for the extra money. The AF of the XP1 is accurate but glacial (yes the firmware was updated) - I missed a lot of photos as a result, and the EVF is like looking at a cheap screen through a periscope. The quality of the images on the XP2 IMO are a significant step forward, for some reason the XP1 images always looked soft and lacked the colour depth of the more recent fujis. That said, there are people that actually prefer the XP1 images so you may disagree, I would recommend downloading raw files. I also find the XP2 has significantly more refined ergonomics with the larger thumb grip area and the addition of the joystick.
Personally I've moved away from Fuji to Canon 5d series SLRs since it suits my needs better. I can certainly say that the full frame vs crop sensor thing is an important thing to think about, I have to say if Fuji had FF sensors and offered a high res body I would have stayed in the system (imagine adapted M mount lenses on fuji bodies uncropped! Drool). That said if you don't need higher MP or shallower depth of field than equivalent F2 or 2.8 or want to adapt legacy lenses then I think a move to fuji won't cause any regrets.
Final note, you mention the G2 - the XP series are basically Contax G bodies but with better viewfinders. People usually compare XP bodies to Leica M, but IMO they have much more in common with Kyocera Contaxes in terms of design, layout, and general functionality.
I got a second-hand XP1 around 5 years ago to replace an XE-1, since then it has been around the world no less than 3 times. It has been to deserts, rainforests, up mountains, and was severely abused all the way. To me the cost of the camera was pretty minimal (around $300) so I wasn't all that concerned about the repair costs since I'd just replace it, but in spite of me treating it like a disposable camera it somehow went through everything. It was dropped many, many times; concrete stairs, rock slides, you name it - it has no paint on any of its edges and the strap lugs have nearly worn through. Shots from the camera made it into a few magazines and print publications over the years, some of them full spreads.
A few months ago I was very unhappy to find on a trip that the camera stopped working due to shutter failure. One thing to know about the XP1 is there's no reliable way of finding out the shutter count, but I suspect that I shot well over 100k pics and I have no idea how many the previous owner took. Whattever it is, it was a respectable number that would probably be in line with any pro SLR, just be aware that there will be an amount of luck involved in buying a second hand one regarding shutter life.
I really loved the camera. I was really fond of the form factor, looks, price and lenses (the 35mm 1.4 is my favorite 50mm alongside the Zeiss Planar), but if you've got the funds I can't recommend that you buy it. I strongly recommend the XP2 instead, you get a lot for the extra money. The AF of the XP1 is accurate but glacial (yes the firmware was updated) - I missed a lot of photos as a result, and the EVF is like looking at a cheap screen through a periscope. The quality of the images on the XP2 IMO are a significant step forward, for some reason the XP1 images always looked soft and lacked the colour depth of the more recent fujis. That said, there are people that actually prefer the XP1 images so you may disagree, I would recommend downloading raw files. I also find the XP2 has significantly more refined ergonomics with the larger thumb grip area and the addition of the joystick.
Personally I've moved away from Fuji to Canon 5d series SLRs since it suits my needs better. I can certainly say that the full frame vs crop sensor thing is an important thing to think about, I have to say if Fuji had FF sensors and offered a high res body I would have stayed in the system (imagine adapted M mount lenses on fuji bodies uncropped! Drool). That said if you don't need higher MP or shallower depth of field than equivalent F2 or 2.8 or want to adapt legacy lenses then I think a move to fuji won't cause any regrets.
Final note, you mention the G2 - the XP series are basically Contax G bodies but with better viewfinders. People usually compare XP bodies to Leica M, but IMO they have much more in common with Kyocera Contaxes in terms of design, layout, and general functionality.
agfa100
Well-known
Being a ex-film M shooter I went with the GXR so I could use my M lenses. Then when I realized that most of my keeper shots in film were done with a 35mm lens, I picked up a used Sony RX-1 and that was my only camera from about three years. I then added a Sony A7s two years ago since I still had my M stuff there is something to be said for never getting rid of Leica bodies and lenses as other people have said. However if I was looking to downsize I would look long and hard at the Fuji X-100 as new as possible. I have two friends that shoot with them and do great work. One of them keeps looking at my RX-1 but stays with his Fuji.
Huss
Veteran
Editing to respond to just the Xpro comments...
I tried out the Xpro3 a few times in my local shop and was very critical about it as I was viewing it in terms of using it as a manual focus style RF camera. There I think it is horrible if you use the OVF. If you use the EVF it is fine for manual focus.
BUT.. this is with the Xpro3 which has a much better EVF than the 1 & 2 models.
Then I viewed the camera as a rangefinder style camera that uses the native Fuji AF lenses. This is much much better. It works great that way - OVF but with AF. Really what a Leica M would be if it had AF.
I know that Xpro3 is not in your budget but from what I have seen the Xpro2 is also very very good used in this way. And from my research the Xpro1 is not. The AF is very slow, so I would not recommend that one. Plus it is getting old.
So, I'd suggest a nice used Xpro2 with native Fuji AF lenses.
What Huss says is true... and if on a budget that doesn’t include the X-Pro2, the X-E3. I cannot stress how good that little camera is for the cash. Especially used.
I agree completely! Even the X-T series is shaped like the RTS. The only Fuji that looks like a Leica is the X100 series... more so the original.
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
Another for the X-E3, this is as close as you can get in a modern digital RF style camera. The only thing that might be closer to the M4 in spirit would be the Epson RD1, but it has some limitations in low light. I've shot several of my M mount lenses on the E3, focus takes a lot of practice. Peaking works pretty good, I found the split screen mode totally useless for me. The standard mode with the magnification seems to be what works the best for me.
Puggie
Established
So the general consensus is X-pro2 if I'm feeling flush and X-E3 if I'm not. I use my manual focus lenses on the sony using magnification for critical focus. This was one thing I loved about the GXR, you had the mode where the view finder defaulted to 10x magnification, then on a half press of the shutter the VF zoomed out to the full frame to compose and you take the pic. If someone else had that functionality, I'd be easily swayed, it made such intuitive work of manual focussing.
I appreciate all second hand cameras are a bit of a gamble, I've only been bitten once.
Right need a valuation for some stuff to shift!
I appreciate all second hand cameras are a bit of a gamble, I've only been bitten once.
Right need a valuation for some stuff to shift!
Dave Jenkins
Loose Canon
I love, love my X-Pro1 with the 27mm f2.8 lens. It is my everyday carry camera and is the only camera I've owned since my OM2n for which I feel affection.
Orthogonal
Established
The best indication for prices would be to put the search filter for show olny "sold items" while searching for each of the items you'd like to sell, you'll get more accurate information from those that list than we're likely to give you here.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Excessive dump of some gear pictures... Are you selling here instead of classifieds?
Here is no replacement for film M, even digital M can't do it. Selling working M4 for something which shades price fast, sucks.
Here is no replacement for film M, even digital M can't do it. Selling working M4 for something which shades price fast, sucks.
Puggie
Established
Nope, happy to run it through the classifieds if anyone is interested, I stated so at the start of the pics. I've sold here through the classifieds before quite happily, prices are fair and it works. I was just advised further up to check pricing as my estimates were a bit off, I'd like guide prices before checking up any ads. I can trawl ebay sold prices if that is a better way to do it.
Yeah, probably the easiest.
ktmrider
Well-known
I am traveling in Asia and have the X100F and M2 along. In three months, I have taken less then a roll of film with the M2. Most of my photos are on the X100F and GoPro (scuba diving).
Take a long hard look at the X100F. With the release of the X100V, there will be a lot of used F's for sale. You can pick up both aux lenses used at B&H for $300 each. And remember the X100F has cropped jpeg setting for 50m and 70mm built into the camera. Am not sure the focal length equivalent if you use the 50 aux lens and 70 crop setting, perhaps 90mm.
Take a long hard look at the X100F. With the release of the X100V, there will be a lot of used F's for sale. You can pick up both aux lenses used at B&H for $300 each. And remember the X100F has cropped jpeg setting for 50m and 70mm built into the camera. Am not sure the focal length equivalent if you use the 50 aux lens and 70 crop setting, perhaps 90mm.
Dogman
Veteran
If you consider an XPro, I advise to go for the XP2 over the XP1. While I like and still use XP1 cameras, the XP2 is much better in many ways. Not that the XP1 is bad, it's just quirky and you have to adapt to those quirks. Things like a non adjustable diopter eyepiece, framelines that are so bright they can be annoying in low light, AF that's slower than the norm today and a few other factors that might unsettle a new user. The XP2 is an improvement in these areas. Much like was said earlier, the XP2 is what a Leica would have been if a Leica was designed for AF. I'm a former film Leica user and I personally would never consider using a rangefinder focus camera again. (I have some vision problems that prevent me from accurately focusing using the rangefinder patch or a split image SLR screen.)
LCSmith
Well-known
Now that is hyperbole. A Leica M(essucher) would no longer be a Leica M if it had Autofocus. It would be an SL.
I don't understand all these comparisons between Leica rangefinders and Fuji X cameras. The former are rangefinder manual focus full-frame cameras, the latter are none of those things.
I say this not to ruffle feathers, but simply to say that it might be a bit misleading and/or disingenuous to suggest that Fuji X cameras are really just auto-focus Leica M cameras. They are nothing of the sort.
LCSmith
Well-known
I really do agree with this.
nightfly
Well-known
Would have to say a +1 for holding on to the film Leica if you enjoy using it.
The digital stuff comes and goes, none of them is worth selling a film Leica for.
Drink a few less coffees/beers/pick your poisons a week and you can afford a used Fuji whatever pretty quick.
The digital stuff comes and goes, none of them is worth selling a film Leica for.
Drink a few less coffees/beers/pick your poisons a week and you can afford a used Fuji whatever pretty quick.
Is it too much of stretch to think that someone who likes a Leica M but wants an autofocus digital camera might be most comfortable with an X-Pro or X100? I mean both have OVFs, are rangefinder shaped, and have small lenses. Also dedicated shutter speed dials and aperture rings. Sure, they will not scratch the mechanical rangefinder itch if that’s your fetish, but they are absolutely comfortable for someone who wants a digital autofocus camera that doesn’t conform to the norm (like Leica). Former Leica user and current Fuji user.
It really depends on if they are just tools for photography for you or if you consider them family heirlooms. I’ve sold Leicas and do not regret it. You can always buy another one if you miss it so much. If I had limited funds, I would buy the camera I want to use the most. Leicas are sexy but they aren’t always the best tool. Of course they CAN be the best tool sometimes too.
benlees
Well-known
I'm starting to think you should keep the M4, if possible.
The Fuji X-E3 and X-T20 have the same sensor and processor as the "pro" offerings but are very affordable.
The X-E3 is currently selling for $650CDN new. A used X-pro2 is selling for $900ish. That makes an X-E3 a bargain even new. Your local prices will vary, of course.
The Fuji X-E3 and X-T20 have the same sensor and processor as the "pro" offerings but are very affordable.
The X-E3 is currently selling for $650CDN new. A used X-pro2 is selling for $900ish. That makes an X-E3 a bargain even new. Your local prices will vary, of course.