X-pro3 & state of the digital camera

[nightfly]

What's funny is that custom menu idea would be one of the least expensive investments a camera company could make and lead to huge improvement in useability.

But I'm always surprised by how, as we move to an age where everything is digital, how little thought is given to interface design.

You get a little spoiled if you're an Apple user particularly, when other things just are so brain dead. My Garmin watch and my Kindle both routinely drive me insane with dumb interface choices and lack of customizability.

The M9 is the only digital camera I've used where the interface largely gets out of my way and I never have to interact with the menus at all.

 

[Bob Michaels]

I think next winner should be with utility allowing to disable, build as much of menus as possible. .....

I am baffled with people's problems with the Fuji menus. I have not used the menus to change anything in years. I only use the menu to reformat cards.

I used the menu to set up my Fuji cameras back when they were new and they have been that way ever since. What adjustments are you so frequently doing with the menus?

 

[shawn]

I am baffled with people's problems with the Fuji menus. I have not used the menus to change anything in years. I only use the menu to reformat cards.

I used the menu to set up my Fuji cameras back when they were new and they have been that way ever since. What adjustments are you so frequently doing with the menus?

You don't need to go into the menus to reformat cards. Press and hold the trash button and after 3 seconds press the rear command dial in.

Shawn

 

[arseniii]

Leica's don't have a lot in their menus but the menus themselves are kind of a mess. Things hidden here or there (to keep the top level simpler) and they aren't consistent with how you use the buttons. The different levels of options (depending upon which button you go into the menus with) is a little weird too.

Fuji has a ton in their menus (cameras are extremely configurable) but after you set it up the way you want you really don't need to go into the menus at all. You can map all the common items to hard buttons or put it in the quick menu.

For relatively simple and straightforward menu I think Sigma's have the best setup.

Shawn

Leica M10 has a "Main menu -> Main menu" - how not confusing it is?


I remember when I had an X-H1 I was hired to shoot a burlesque show. I brought X-H1 and Leica Monochrome. After a little bit of socialization and a few drinks later my tipsy brain could not figure our Fuji menus. So I gave up on it and used Monochrome. I can use Leica menus with my eyes closed.

 

[shawn]

Leica M10 has a "Main menu -> Main menu" - how not confusing it is?


I remember when I had an X-H1 I was hired to shoot a burlesque show. I brought X-H1 and Leica Monochrome. After a little bit of socialization and a few drinks later my tipsy brain could not figure our Fuji menus. So I gave up on it and used Monochrome. I can use Leica menus with my eyes closed.

M240 has the main menu and then the ISO menu. But there is overlap between both menus as things got stuck in weird places. The bigger issue is just a UI problem. Sometimes you can press OK to select an item, and sometimes you can't and have to press set. Sometimes you can select an item and hit the shutter button to leave the menus and the selection sticks, and sometimes it doesn't. The buttons to access aren't consistent, that is where it gets frustrating as you have to go back in and reset items.

And of course the Leica menu is going to have less options than *any* auto focus camera menu.....

Shawn

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Leica M10 has a "Main menu -> Main menu" - how not confusing it is?


I remember when I had an X-H1 I was hired to shoot a burlesque show. I brought X-H1 and Leica Monochrome. After a little bit of socialization and a few drinks later my tipsy brain could not figure our Fuji menus. So I gave up on it and used Monochrome. I can use Leica menus with my eyes closed.

I guess, also similar to X series APS-C sensor AF cameras like CL, TL2. Maybe. Or even made be Panasonic for Leica cameras.

 

[willie_901]

...
It does pretty much everything any other mirrorless camera does.

Yet the other mirrorless cameras do not offer an optical view finder.

 

[jsrockit]

I am baffled with people's problems with the Fuji menus. I have not used the menus to change anything in years. I only use the menu to reformat cards.

Yeah, I agree Bob. However, I think some people are always changing settings for things we don’t bother with. Maybe we are more like cavemen in our approach to these cameras. 😉

 

[emraphoto]

Hilarious and great analogy - I used to love the Swiss army knives as a kid, but at some point I realised they're actually not that useful for anything. Leathermans are far more useful.

Now, what does it say about me that I mainly use one of these (in carbon steel):

Yes, and after a while the Swiss army knives all start looking the same. Something like a mercator k55k or a Higonokami is way cooler.



It's always seemed to me the 'pro camera' thing is a sort of justification for amateurs to spend $$$ on expensive gear. If I recall correctly you have used some pretty unorthodox and unassuming cameras on serious work as well John.

I have. Mostly because I realized very quickly that for the work I did, access was 90% of the game. Relationships with people, trust, intimacy and so forth. Cameras choice was about 5% and the other 5% was understanding 2 dimensional design logic. With that equation in mind, small and light became high on the list of selection criteria.

Today I do tend towards cameras similar to the X-Pro 3 where I can reduce the distraction and focus on what’s in front of me. Screen turned in and manual controls on top. Paying attention leads to more keepers (as they say) than the menus. At least that’s the equation for me

 

[RichC]

The more profitable brands like Canon and Nikon are unlikely to go 'backwards' in design, as they seem to see their market as being mirrrorless derivatives of DSLR's. Sony could do it as it has the resources, but not the history.

Completely wrong. Of course they have the history. Sony is Minolta, whose excellent pedigree includes the Leica CL.

Whether Sony has any interest in retro-styled, backward-looking cameras is a different question.

Why do people persist with this idea that Sony is a new player in photography? Sony bought Minolta lock, stock and barrel and moved it forwards, albeit consigning its name to history...

 

[JeffS7444]

I think I'd enjoy using X-Pro3 with it's titanium shell, single-purpose controls (aperture rings even) and who knows, maybe I'd be entertained by the unconventional LCD arrangement.


Maybe the real test of X-Pro3's goodness is whether you guys are still using it as your primary cameras 3-5 years from now! Because as we all know, new toys are fun.

 

[jsrockit]

Maybe the real test of X-Pro3's goodness is whether you guys are still using it as your primary cameras 3-5 years from now! Because as we all know, new toys are fun.

Well, it’s a digital camera so I’ll probably be using the X-Pro4 by then. On to the X-Pro3 now... used the X-Pro1 and X-Pro2 for 8+ years... great toys!

 

[jsrockit]

Completely wrong. Of course they have the history. Sony is Minolta, whose excellent pedigree includes the Leica CL.

Whether Sony has any interest in retro-styled, backward-looking cameras is a different question.

Why do people persist with this idea that Sony is a new player in photography? Sony bought Minolta lock, stock and barrel and moved if forwards, albeit consigning its name to history...

True, but can you tell? When I look at a Sony, I do not think of Minolta. And they might not be interested in backward looking cameras... but their cameras do resemble late 1990s style TV remote controls! 😉

 

[Yokosuka Mike]

I am baffled with people's problems with the Fuji menus. I have not used the menus to change anything in years. I only use the menu to reformat cards.

Good old Bob Michaels' common sense comments as usual.

I used the menu to set up my Fuji cameras back when they were new and they have been that way ever since. What adjustments are you so frequently doing with the menus?

Great question, Bob, I have been waiting for them to answer. So far, crickets.

All the best,
Mike

 

[jsrockit]

Ok, I've had the X-Pro3 and X100V for a few days now... they both seem to be great updates for MY wants / needs. They pretty much focus in the dark (and quickly) and the X-Pro3 has made even the slowest Fuji lenses focus quickly. The finish on the X-Pro3 feels a bit higher quality than the 2. The EVF is a huge improvement over the X-Pro2. The optical VF is perfect for me since I am not a wide angle user. I'm a Fuji fanboy, so....of course I am satisfied. 😉

 

[willie_901]

jsrockit

Thanks for the report.

 

[cboy]

Is the op referring that the xpro is specialised due to its rangefinderesque style which has AF? Then a better experience of this would be had with a leica m or Q imho. The only benifit the xpro has is that its AF is paired with its rangefinder style hybridfinder, which is almost the closest modern equivalent to the contax g.
Xpro should really had gone to full frame or bypassed it to an medium format equivalent and not a gxf 50r that dosent have an hybrid viewfinder.
I had an xpro for many years and i loved using it but it lacked the experience what a true rangefinder can give. However im sure in time with my failing eyesight ill go back to the AF that the xpro benifits users with.
Im still hoping fuji will at least bless us with at least a FF version of a x100...

 

[jsrockit]

Is the op referring that the xpro is specialised due to its rangefinderesque style which has AF? Then a better experience of this would be had with a leica m or Q imho. The only benifit the xpro has is that its AF is paired with its rangefinder style hybridfinder, which is almost the closest modern equivalent to the contax g.
Xpro should really had gone to full frame or bypassed it to an medium format equivalent and not a gxf 50r that dosent have an hybrid viewfinder.
I had an xpro for many years and i loved using it but it lacked the experience what a true rangefinder can give. However im sure in time with my failing eyesight ill go back to the AF that the xpro benifits users with.
Im still hoping fuji will at least bless us with at least a FF version of a x100...

So, the X-Pro series lacks but the X100 is ok?

 

[willie_901]

...
Im still hoping fuji will at least bless us with at least a FF version of a x100...

There is no evidence FUJIFILM will ever offer a new camera with a 24 X 36 mm sensor.

Why should they?

The X-100 would be the least likely platform for a 24 X 36 mm product A X-100 lens is much longer than one might guess. At one time the X-100 lens to sensor distance was the closest of any mirrorless camera (it may still be). Accommodating a 24 X 36 mm sensor would require a complete redesign and the result would be a different user experience than the APS-C X-100 cameras.

The FUJIFILM GFX 100 and GFX 50 have more sensor area. If sensor area is a purchase priority, why settle for 24 X 36 mm?

Epson, Leica and FUJIFILM X-Pro cameras are the only interchangeable lens cameras that offer important aspect of the classic range finder experience - being able to compose while directly observing what's outside the frame line estimates. The RD-1 is impractical. Its sensor technology (same as Nikon D100) is almost 19 years old and they cost $1,300 - $3,000.


In terms of sensitivity (native signal-to-noise ratio), the newer X-Trans sensors are up to 0.8 stops less sensitive than the M-10. I can't find data for the X-Pro3, but the X-100F is about 0.3 stops down compared to the M10 and 0.6 stops below the Leica Q2. The Leica M262/240 is about .6 stops below the M10. The M10 is less sensitive than the GFX-100 and GFX-50 by about 1.5 and 1 stops respectively.

I can operate my X-Pro2 and XF prime lenses as I operated my Zeiss Ikon ZM. This includes where I stood to make photographs. Once optimized to simulate a minimalistic optical rangefinder experience, the menus can be ignored (except reformat the SDHC card and occasionally set the date/time parameters.

The FUJIFILM X-Pro cameras are not Leica substitutes. People who want a complete film rangefinder experience must buy a Leica.

People who own M/LTM lenses will be better served using a Leica. With an APS-C sensor and M-mount adapter they won't be able to stand in the same place (i.e. use the same lens to subject distance) they could stand in with their favorite focal length M/LTM lens. A beloved 50mm M lens will have an effective angle of view similar to a 75 MM lens when you stand in the same place. So you will have to use a M 35mm lens on an APS-C camera to stand in the same place you stood with the M9, M240, M262 and M10 cameras. I would find this frustrating.

The X-Pro 2 or 3 with XF lenses offers an option for those who want to use a digital camera as they used a film rangefinder camera. The APS-C sensor area is not a significant disadvantage. The disadvantage is mostly figuring out how set up the Menu system parameters to create a minimalistic, pseudo-mannual focus environment.

 

[Archlich]

Bought a used Leica Q2 for a road trip last month. Had been longing for one since like forever. As expected, it was nice, the only gripe being it's also a beast compared to the rest of fixed lens camera pack. The 47MP sensor is overwhelming too - very thin margin of focusing & exposing error. Despite the awesome focus ring, it's not a camera that's fit to just snap away.

Would really be nice...if they can just resurrect a X camera and update it with an EVF. I really don't need FF for my intended use.

Good that Fuji is sticking to what it is, IMO. APS-C is the segment they'd been dead fixed to dominate, and that's a clever move. No way for them to drop that and join the FF competition with 4 established systems, a white hot fighting pit with little prospect of profit left.