Shutterspark
The perpetual new guy.
Just as a warning to others and to let off some steam, I'm gonna share my recent experience with Yahoo Auctions in Japan.
It's a long story, so in short, I was foolish enough to assume it would be like Ebay without reading all the fine print and terms in Japanese (I'm not a native Japanese speaker, so I've got this habit of skipping over large chunks of text).
It's nothing like Ebay.
So I bid on a "Like new" Summaron f2.8 with goggles. In the description it was in "amazing" condition cosmetically, and the optics were "fantastic" with "only a few minor cleaning marks" on the front element.
He went on to describe how it was in an unusually immaculate condition, not usually seen outside of collections. Mechanically "smooth".
Was about to win the auction at what would have been about $500 USD.
The seller cancelled the auction in the last 60 seconds, presumably because it didn't go for a high enough price. You can do this with zero repercussions on Yahoo auctions.
I was a bit miffed, but fair enough. $500 is a bit low for a lens that high street dealers here in Tokyo sell for $2000+ in good condition (yeah crazy, I know).
I bid again when he relisted, this time winning the auction at what would be about $750 USD. Not what I would call a great deal anymore, but I really wanted this lens.
When the lens arrived this morning I was surprised to find not only coating separation on the rear element but also a hairline crack on the front element along with pretty severe "cleaning marks". Certainly not the kind of thing you would brush off in the description as minor.
On top of that, the aperture ring and focus ring are pretty gummed up, and there are some fairly big scrapes on the lens barrel which weren't in the listing photos.
So... that's it. Yahoo offers no claims, and refunds are at the seller's discretion. He stated in his listing he will provide a 3 day return period, but with a restocking charge of $80 and the buyer will also cover all shipping costs as well as the original listing fee (5.25% of the total price).
When I contacted him, he said that what I was describing was typical for any used lens and it didn't qualify for a return.
He would take it back with a 50% refund. And this guy has 99% positive feedback. Amazing.
I guess Japanese people just aren't the type to raise their voices and complain.
I've since decided to keep the lens and send it off for a CLA, since so far the defects thankfully haven't proven to be too noticeable in photos.
Not terribly happy about it though, as you can imagine.
I know, I know. It was my fault for not reading up on the terms beforehand. But while I thought Ebay was bad, this really takes the cake.
So, a heads up to anyone who may be tempted to buy from Yahoo Auctions in Japan. The buyer has no protection whatsoever, so do so at your own risk.
As for me, I've learned my lesson and I'm going back to Ebay/classified sections instead of trying to save money on international shipping.
It's a long story, so in short, I was foolish enough to assume it would be like Ebay without reading all the fine print and terms in Japanese (I'm not a native Japanese speaker, so I've got this habit of skipping over large chunks of text).
It's nothing like Ebay.
So I bid on a "Like new" Summaron f2.8 with goggles. In the description it was in "amazing" condition cosmetically, and the optics were "fantastic" with "only a few minor cleaning marks" on the front element.
He went on to describe how it was in an unusually immaculate condition, not usually seen outside of collections. Mechanically "smooth".
Was about to win the auction at what would have been about $500 USD.
The seller cancelled the auction in the last 60 seconds, presumably because it didn't go for a high enough price. You can do this with zero repercussions on Yahoo auctions.
I was a bit miffed, but fair enough. $500 is a bit low for a lens that high street dealers here in Tokyo sell for $2000+ in good condition (yeah crazy, I know).
I bid again when he relisted, this time winning the auction at what would be about $750 USD. Not what I would call a great deal anymore, but I really wanted this lens.
When the lens arrived this morning I was surprised to find not only coating separation on the rear element but also a hairline crack on the front element along with pretty severe "cleaning marks". Certainly not the kind of thing you would brush off in the description as minor.
On top of that, the aperture ring and focus ring are pretty gummed up, and there are some fairly big scrapes on the lens barrel which weren't in the listing photos.
So... that's it. Yahoo offers no claims, and refunds are at the seller's discretion. He stated in his listing he will provide a 3 day return period, but with a restocking charge of $80 and the buyer will also cover all shipping costs as well as the original listing fee (5.25% of the total price).
When I contacted him, he said that what I was describing was typical for any used lens and it didn't qualify for a return.
He would take it back with a 50% refund. And this guy has 99% positive feedback. Amazing.
I guess Japanese people just aren't the type to raise their voices and complain.
I've since decided to keep the lens and send it off for a CLA, since so far the defects thankfully haven't proven to be too noticeable in photos.
Not terribly happy about it though, as you can imagine.
I know, I know. It was my fault for not reading up on the terms beforehand. But while I thought Ebay was bad, this really takes the cake.
So, a heads up to anyone who may be tempted to buy from Yahoo Auctions in Japan. The buyer has no protection whatsoever, so do so at your own risk.
As for me, I've learned my lesson and I'm going back to Ebay/classified sections instead of trying to save money on international shipping.
bgetty
Brandon Getty
funny how a solitary bad experience through an auction site will elicit such blanket statements as "I guess Japanese people just aren't the type to raise their voices and complain."
sounds like you should have familiarized yourself with what you were getting into (i.e. actually reading the fine print) before plunking down that much cash. sorry, no pity here.
sounds like you should have familiarized yourself with what you were getting into (i.e. actually reading the fine print) before plunking down that much cash. sorry, no pity here.
btgc
Veteran
$750 isn't a change but still can be thought as reasonable price for lens you wanted (sigh) and what's more important - for lesson you learned. Money can be replaced while wisdom can not be bought for money - so you are lucky enough as you have chance getting something invaluable for your money.
Sure, you'll spend additional money on CLA (probably wait a bit, use lens as is for some time? you'll settle on your feelings if you want to keep it or sell and buy another) but you'll never burn on M9 there.
Sure, you'll spend additional money on CLA (probably wait a bit, use lens as is for some time? you'll settle on your feelings if you want to keep it or sell and buy another) but you'll never burn on M9 there.
Shutterspark
The perpetual new guy.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I obviously wasn't thinking clearly when I wrote this post. Reading through what I wrote 75% of it is just venting, and I don't deserve pity for my mistake.
I've seen some interest in using Yahoo auctions here and elsewhere, so I just wanted to give people a heads up to make sure they're aware that buyers have no right to file a claim unlike with Ebay.
For the record my observation of Japanese people tending to avoid voicing complaints is actually based on living in Japan for the best part of a decade, although it most certainly doesn't apply to the whole or perhaps even most of the populace.
It wasn't intended as an insult. Being able to take something, shrug it off and move on instead of whine about it like what I'm doing is very admirable.
All the same it was an unnecessary comment and I apologise for it. I'll just shut up and leave.
Edit: Oh and I even posted it in the wrong forum, great. Sorry about that.
paradoxbox
Well-known
Just for your information, the seller's fine print means nothing on yahoo auctions.
If the item you receive is different from the description you are entitled to a full refund with no fees (maybe you'll have to pay shipping though)
if the seller argues this you can complain to yahoo and they'll basically just close his yahoo account.
The item description and photos must be significantly different from the item received - if the description said nearly perfect condition and made no mention of marks or cracks you're fully entitled to a full refund with no fees. If the auction description does not mention a crack, but there is a crack in the lens, you need to communicate that to the seller and tell him the item is not the same item you bid on and that you expect a full refund.
Fight it. And don't label yahoo auctions or Japanese people badly - your poor experience is a result of either your not understanding, or not using the Japanese language enough to resolve the conflict. There is a conflict resolution system on yahoo.
If the item you receive is different from the description you are entitled to a full refund with no fees (maybe you'll have to pay shipping though)
if the seller argues this you can complain to yahoo and they'll basically just close his yahoo account.
The item description and photos must be significantly different from the item received - if the description said nearly perfect condition and made no mention of marks or cracks you're fully entitled to a full refund with no fees. If the auction description does not mention a crack, but there is a crack in the lens, you need to communicate that to the seller and tell him the item is not the same item you bid on and that you expect a full refund.
Fight it. And don't label yahoo auctions or Japanese people badly - your poor experience is a result of either your not understanding, or not using the Japanese language enough to resolve the conflict. There is a conflict resolution system on yahoo.
japancamerahunter
Established
I buy a lot from Yahoo Auctions, and have only had one issue, which was my fault for not paying due care to the pictures, and not reading the seller feedback.
For the most part everything has been fine. I have had to return a couple of cameras and they have not charged me anything for it. You have to really look at the seller feedback and if you have any issue with the camera you should ask questions first.
I source a lot of my customers cameras from Yahoo and it has been great so far.
For the most part everything has been fine. I have had to return a couple of cameras and they have not charged me anything for it. You have to really look at the seller feedback and if you have any issue with the camera you should ask questions first.
I source a lot of my customers cameras from Yahoo and it has been great so far.
Frontman
Well-known
I considered bidding on this lens, I'm obviously glad I didn't. You certainly need to demand a full refund, I too have run across a few unscrupulous sellers on Yahoo auctions. You are right that many Japanese don't complain when problems come up, and it is quite rare that they return things which they buy. But Yahoo's policies are clear, if the item you bought isn't as the seller described, you are enitled to a full refund.
I have bought hundreds of things on Yahoo auctions, and have generally had a good experience.
I have bought hundreds of things on Yahoo auctions, and have generally had a good experience.