Bunnyblaster
Member
Good idea. Parts camera should be here next week.
btgc
Veteran
I were going to say this
If donor is in better shape then I have moral pain to wreck it for repairing worse one.Your choice, for sure. But you can't win 'em all. I tried to fix KAS2 with broken lens barrel because I got if from overseas (kind of rare here) but finally strained eyes and bumped into some broken parts so after painful feeling of loosing battle I just lifted hands. After some time I've bought perfect KAS2 for very cheap with continental shipping.
Yet, I don't use it much because of ergonomics, preferring earlier models of Konica rangefinders.
I'm alone, cameras are gazillions. Once they engage me repairing them I just don't have to go out and take picture. I try to take pictures personally, not cameras. Sometimes it works. Sure you are free to choose either side. Lynxes are one of nicest Japanese FL RF's.
hanskerensky
Well-known
If you use a heat gun/paint stripper then just keep more distance. Heating things up to quickly might break glass. Too high temperature also may contribute to thining and flowing (were you don't want it) of lubricants used inside the camera.
Bunnyblaster
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if the 'parts camera' ends up being the useable camera. We'll see when she gets here. Supposedly its only problem is a shutter that sticks a little at speeds under 1/125. If that can be fixed with some lighter fluid (and thats really the only problem), it sounds like a much easier fix. Just have to see when it gets here.
btgc, I take stubborn things personally only because I have a tendency to be stubborn myself...at least thats what my wife says. You are correct in that the image is really the important factor. As a chronic tinkerer though, I get caught up in the mechanics from time to time. In the end, I can only hope it will make the act of acquiring images more enjoyable and more creative. I see it as catching a fish on a fly you tied.
btgc, I take stubborn things personally only because I have a tendency to be stubborn myself...at least thats what my wife says. You are correct in that the image is really the important factor. As a chronic tinkerer though, I get caught up in the mechanics from time to time. In the end, I can only hope it will make the act of acquiring images more enjoyable and more creative. I see it as catching a fish on a fly you tied.
Murray Kelly
Well-known
I bought a Summitar like that and a rivet was broken off a leaf. It had 12 blades but the iris has a hex shape.
I made a rivet and found it almost impossible to reassemble and took it to a camera tech. He admitted it was a struggle, too, but said that he had all the gear to make rivets and I had gone to a lot of trouble I didn't need to. The comma shape of the iris is the give-away.
I made a rivet and found it almost impossible to reassemble and took it to a camera tech. He admitted it was a struggle, too, but said that he had all the gear to make rivets and I had gone to a lot of trouble I didn't need to. The comma shape of the iris is the give-away.
mikemc_photo
Established
If the shutter is good at the high speeds, DO NOT dump anything into it, instead dissemble the shutter from the front, remove the gear train, clean it and dry lube with a bit of molly powder, reassemble and shoot. This geartrain will drop right in and you do not have to adjust it for good speeds
Bunnyblaster
Member
Forgive my ignorance as I'm new to this. When you say "gear train" are you referring to the shutter clockwork?
btgc
Veteran
Bunnyblaster
Member
Many call it a speed escapement.
So you're saying this assembly can be removed as one unit? I would be worried upon any trial of removal, springs would start flying everywhere. But then again, I'm very new to this.
Thanks for all the help!
Bunnyblaster
Member
I got the new Lynx in the mail today. Everything on it works great except that the shutter sticks at speeds under 1/125. They don't stick then relase, they stick until you advance the film again. The shutter blades don't look like they have any oil on them at all. The bulb mode is fast to respond as well. Makes me think it's something more than just a cleaning in order.
btgc
Veteran
Speed escapement has to be cleaned on 99% of this shutters in my experience. Ironically, Lynx 14 were only camera not needing this, probably because larger shutter works at bigger tension and has more "kraft". 5000 and Konicas with Copals, they all went through lighter fluid treatment. Soaking overnight and flushing several times then reinstalling, not just dripping once or twice.
Frontman
Well-known
The slow speed mechanism is usually held in place by just 2 screws, and comes out as a single unit. This is true for many rangefinder and SLR cameras as well as leaf shutter cameras. Remove the screws, lift out the mechanism, soak it in solvent, and let it dry, and put it back in.
Dirty shutter blades are often the culprit if the shutter sticks at speeds over 1/25 sec. A couple drops of lighter fluid will loosen things up. Oil will move to the edges of the blades, you can remove the oil with cotton swabs wet with lacquer thinner.
The aperture blades can let go quite suddenly in these cameras, a few blades popped loose without warning in my Lynx 14.
Bunnyblaster
Member
Awesome help here. So from the looks of the image above, the mechanism you guys are describing can be removed after removing those two grey screws. Am I understanding right? Let that unit soak, let it dry, make sure it's clean, and re-install.
The new camera is in better shape than the original one. Light meter works, etc. hope to fix this one now and keep the other one for parts.
The new camera is in better shape than the original one. Light meter works, etc. hope to fix this one now and keep the other one for parts.
btgc
Veteran
Yes, two screws, shims under unit - watch 'em. It's described on Net in details - soak for several hours, maybe, overnight then gently shake film container to wash out debris. I make several final washes, replacing ronsonol each time. Maybe this is overkill but once I get there I don't want to return soon.
It's possible to adjust shutter speeds as soon as you know speeds aren't impacted by gummed mechanism - if that is needed, of course.
It's possible to adjust shutter speeds as soon as you know speeds aren't impacted by gummed mechanism - if that is needed, of course.
Bunnyblaster
Member
Should have taken an image of the inside of mine, but forgot to, so this will work.
The two gray screws (distinguished by red lines) seem to hold the assembly together (I know this because I took them out, and the top plate of that assembly came off leaving the gears behind...was somewhat of a bugger to get back together.) After reassembling, lining up all the small pins on the gears, etc, I saw two screws that looked like they held the assembly base plate to the main plate (marked by blue lines). However, after removing both screws, the assembly wouldn't move easily like it was free. So, I didn't force it, and returned the screws to their place.
Now, after getting the assembly back together and re-applying the shutter plate that fits on top of the entire clockwork, I could see how the speed escapement gears reacted to changes in the plate position as I spun it. The lever from the assembly that rides on the shutter plate was very slow to return to the plate when reducing the shutter speed...sometimes even needing a small tap from a screwdriver to return. The gears are gunked up for sure.
I'm trying to detail this as best as possible in case another newbee has a similar issue in the future.
So another question. Was I removing the correct screws (marked in blue). Should that allow the entire speed escapement assembly to fall free? Was something else holding that up?
The two gray screws (distinguished by red lines) seem to hold the assembly together (I know this because I took them out, and the top plate of that assembly came off leaving the gears behind...was somewhat of a bugger to get back together.) After reassembling, lining up all the small pins on the gears, etc, I saw two screws that looked like they held the assembly base plate to the main plate (marked by blue lines). However, after removing both screws, the assembly wouldn't move easily like it was free. So, I didn't force it, and returned the screws to their place.
Now, after getting the assembly back together and re-applying the shutter plate that fits on top of the entire clockwork, I could see how the speed escapement gears reacted to changes in the plate position as I spun it. The lever from the assembly that rides on the shutter plate was very slow to return to the plate when reducing the shutter speed...sometimes even needing a small tap from a screwdriver to return. The gears are gunked up for sure.
I'm trying to detail this as best as possible in case another newbee has a similar issue in the future.
So another question. Was I removing the correct screws (marked in blue). Should that allow the entire speed escapement assembly to fall free? Was something else holding that up?
btgc
Veteran
On left it is red and on right - blue (yes, doesn't look logical, but not always red wire is the right one). It should come out in a single piece without falling apart.
You just learned your first lesson to read carefully (that site is specific on them) No, I'm not kidding you and I'm sorry if I sound rude but hey, better learn it on something relatively common and not expensive like this camera and before you've done many hours on work there. I tell this from my sour experience, sometimes it pays to read once more and save yourself hours of reconstructing previous state.
You just learned your first lesson to read carefully (that site is specific on them)
No, I'm not kidding you and I'm sorry if I sound rude but hey, better learn it on something relatively common and not expensive like this camera and before you've done many hours on work there. I tell this from my sour experience, sometimes it pays to read once more and save yourself hours of reconstructing previous state.
Bunnyblaster
Member
No rudeness taken. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'm stubborn.
One difference I noticed in my 1000 compared to the 5000 pictured above is the lack of a screw (left blue line). On the 1000 there is another screw here. The image above seems to show a brass stud as opposed to a screw.
Thanks again for all the assistance.
One difference I noticed in my 1000 compared to the 5000 pictured above is the lack of a screw (left blue line). On the 1000 there is another screw here. The image above seems to show a brass stud as opposed to a screw.
Thanks again for all the assistance.
farlymac
PF McFarland
Shutters will have slight differences from camera to camera, even if it's the same model shutter. It all depends on how the assembly interfaces with the camera body, and what features are used (such as what the speed range is, and if there is a self timer or not).
But basic assemblies are pretty much the same with the escapement on the right, the timer at the bottom (where it catches all the dirt, which is why it's the first part to fail most of the time), and the control levers on the left. The drive is usually at top center, which sets the escapement, moves the shutter blades, and resets the control levers.
The aperture is independent of the shutter on most cameras with leaf shutters, but sometimes the shutter itself is used as the aperture (like on the Olympus XA).
That plate that changes the speeds is called the speed cam, and is sometimes used to block out the timer when the camera is on B (again, depending on which model camera the shutter is mounted on).
Lots to learn when it comes to working on leaf shutters. Some manufacturers came up with really quirky ways to control things, and you sometimes just have to watch the shutter in action several times to get a handle on how it is operating.
Hope you get your replacement Lynx ready to go soon.
PF
But basic assemblies are pretty much the same with the escapement on the right, the timer at the bottom (where it catches all the dirt, which is why it's the first part to fail most of the time), and the control levers on the left. The drive is usually at top center, which sets the escapement, moves the shutter blades, and resets the control levers.
The aperture is independent of the shutter on most cameras with leaf shutters, but sometimes the shutter itself is used as the aperture (like on the Olympus XA).
That plate that changes the speeds is called the speed cam, and is sometimes used to block out the timer when the camera is on B (again, depending on which model camera the shutter is mounted on).
Lots to learn when it comes to working on leaf shutters. Some manufacturers came up with really quirky ways to control things, and you sometimes just have to watch the shutter in action several times to get a handle on how it is operating.
Hope you get your replacement Lynx ready to go soon.
PF
Bunnyblaster
Member
Just a quick update. After removing those 3 screws the escapement came right out just like you guys said. I had her soaking in lighter fluid all night. Hopefully after I get home this evening it will be dry and I'll get a chance to try and re-install.
There is a rubber o-ring around the outside of the center brass lens barrel. Do you guys generally remove something like that before re-installing a piece like this? It seemed to get in the way when removing the escapement, and I wonder how it will affect the shims under its final placement. However, I don't want to risk damaging it if its gotten brittle and I can't tell. Just curious. Is there anything you would use to help hold those shims in place?
There is a rubber o-ring around the outside of the center brass lens barrel. Do you guys generally remove something like that before re-installing a piece like this? It seemed to get in the way when removing the escapement, and I wonder how it will affect the shims under its final placement. However, I don't want to risk damaging it if its gotten brittle and I can't tell. Just curious. Is there anything you would use to help hold those shims in place?
Bunnyblaster
Member
Got it all back together and it was working great! Speeds sound good and everything functions....then I went to put film in her. Seems the film advance only advances the film after I manually turn the spool a little. Then it will advance several times and stop. The lever always charges the shutter though.
It seems like something is gummed up and turning the spool releases it briefly. Any thoughts?
It seems like something is gummed up and turning the spool releases it briefly. Any thoughts?