Yet another buying advice request

[rhechcapel]

Hey folks.

I picked up a cheap Seagull 4BI a couple of months ago and I'm really enjoying the different perspective it gives me. What I don't enjoy is having to remember to advance the frame (I often don't) and peering ferociously through that tiny red window on the back to see when I've wound it the right amount. My eyesight simply isn't up to it and I keep wasting frames.

I would love some advice on where to go next. My spending has been a bit out of control recently so I'd like to keep the cost down. What is the cheapest TLR that you think would meet the following criteria?

• Idiot proof film advance
• Character lens - I love the imperfections of the Seagull
• Faster is better - 2.8 would be great
• Big bright clear ground glass
• Easy to focus for the optically challenged. Split prism perhaps?
• Tripod mountable
• A reliable light meter would be a nice bonus, but by no means a requirement
• Did I mention idiot proof?

I'm completely clueless when it comes to TLRs, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

 

[Bill Clark]

It’s a pretty big jump to go from your Seagull to a camera that has your requirements/wishes listed here.

I’m thinking Rolleiflex but one with a f2,8 lens and that's in decent shape might make your wallet shake from fear of getting emptied!

I would get a camera without a light meter as any camera that has one would probably be inaccurate because of its age and other things.

How are you getting your film developed? Do you have a darkroom? Have you considered a camera that uses 120 film but the image sise is 6x4.5

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Almost all TLRs have f3.5 lenses. The only ones I can think of that have f2.8 lenses are some Rolleiflexes (all Rolleis are expensive, and the f2.8 models especially so) and Mamiya TLRs. Mamiyas have interchangeable lenses, which is really nice, and the 80mm lens is an f2.8 lens.

Some Rolleis (2.8E and 2.8F models) have built in meters but they often no longer work. Mamiyas do not.

The Mamiya and Rollei lenses are not 'character' lenses. They're GOOD lenses. Very sharp.

Neither are inexpensive, though Mamiyas are less expensive then Rolleis.

The camera you want does not exist! Also, you have your Voigtlander meter on backwards.

 

[rhechcapel]

Almost all TLRs have f3.5 lenses. The only ones I can think of that have f2.8 lenses are some Rolleiflexes (all Rolleis are expensive, and the f2.8 models especially so) and Mamiya TLRs. Mamiyas have interchangeable lenses, which is really nice, and the 80mm lens is an f2.8 lens.

Some Rolleis (2.8E and 2.8F models) have built in meters but they often no longer work. Mamiyas do not.

The Mamiya and Rollei lenses are not 'character' lenses. They're GOOD lenses. Very sharp.

Neither are inexpensive, though Mamiyas are less expensive then Rolleis.

The camera you want does not exist! Also, you have your Voigtlander meter on backwards.

Thanks. I put it on backwards because otherwise it would foul the focusing knob. I didn't want to adjust the mounting bracket because it mostly lives on my M4-P 🙂

I wasn't going to mention any options, but what do you think of the Yashica MAT 124g?

 

[rhechcapel]

It’s a pretty big jump to go from your Seagull to a camera that has your requirements/wishes listed here.

I’m thinking Rolleiflex but one with a f2,8 lens and that's in decent shape might make your wallet shake from fear of getting emptied!

I would get a camera without a light meter as any camera that has one would probably be inaccurate because of its age and other things.

How are you getting your film developed? Do you have a darkroom? Have you considered a camera that uses 120 film but the image sise is 6x4.5

Thanks Bill.

I develop B&W at home. A lightroom isn't an option at the moment, so I scan my negatives instead. Hopefully I'll be able to build a lightroom when we move later in the year.

Colour I get done at a local lab because the C41 chemicals are impossible to get here in Singapore.

I'm curious what you're thinking about in 6x4.5. I already own several 120 cameras - a Pentax 6x7, a "new" Mamiya 6, and of course the Seagull. I actually have a waist level finder for the Pentax, but it's a beast to hold that way, and I prefer the square format for waist level shooting.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Thanks Bill.

I develop B&W at home. A lightroom isn't an option at the moment, so I scan my negatives instead. Hopefully I'll be able to build a lightroom when we move later in the year.

Colour I get done at a local lab because the C41 chemicals are impossible to get here in Singapore.

I'm curious what you're thinking about in 6x4.5. I already own several 120 cameras - a Pentax 6x7, a "new" Mamiya 6, and of course the Seagull. I actually have a waist level finder for the Pentax, but it's a beast to hold that way, and I prefer the square format for waist level shooting.

If I were you, I'd just use your Mamiya 6. I had one for several years and had to sell it because I needed to pay bills after suffering a stroke. It is one of the best cameras I have ever owned; the only TLR I would say is better would be one of the high-end Rolleis like the 3.5F or 2.8F, and the Mamiya 6 has three lenses!

The Yashica 124G you asked about is a good camera and usually fairly cheap.

 

[eli griggs]

A meterless Autocord from Minolta, cir 1958.

It's a 1:3.5 lens, up to F22, and a 1/400th top speed, but it's one of the nicest lens/shutters you can have on a proper TLR, has a great viewfinder which can be upgraded, focus lever center bottom of the taking lens, Bay 1 filters and for tripod use, there is a focus& lift platform from Minolta that puts the taking lens where the focus lens was a moment before.

Minolta also mad a one-piece polarize assembly and several other pieces of gear.

Bay 1 filters or threaded filter adapters are fairly common, and less expensive than larger bay filters, so a good set of ND filters, to compensate for the slower top speed of 400 of a second is a non issue, so far as shooting on a bright day or harsh light, and it is simple to operate.

The weakness of the Minolta Autocord(s), is the focus lever, which was made out of pot metal, and you will see examples for sale, with this broken off, so beware, however, with proper usage, mine has lasted my entire 62 years, and will likely be around for one more generation of use.

The Minolta loads from the top, which is touted as an advantage by some, is simpler to work on than Rolli TLRs, and a better lens and camera than all but, perhaps a few of those make, IMO and others.

The Winder is smooth and the shutter is so silent, it mad my Leica IIIc sound like a truck door being closed.e

Look at the galleries and TLR threads and you will soon see, this very inexpensive, quality camera, makes beautiful images, and is head and shoulder above other popular brands, (no insult intended) such as any of the over priced Yashicas.

With a full set of Colour Contrast filters, the NDs and a good Popularizer plus set of bay 1 hoods, separate, you can have a fine camera that is only about $300US, tops.

Do no take my word for it or fail under the impression that the Rolli TLRs are the only Superior, lens/camera combinations, really Look at Autocord Pics by capable photographers on the internet (there are always folks that could no focus and compose with if their lives depended on it) and let that show you the way.

IMO, Cheers

 

[rhechcapel]

If I were you, I'd just use your Mamiya 6. I had one for several years and had to sell it because I needed to pay bills after suffering a stroke. It is one of the best cameras I have ever owned; the only TLR I would say is better would be one of the high-end Rolleis like the 3.5F or 2.8F, and the Mamiya 6 has three lenses!


The Yashica 124G you asked about is a good camera and usually fairly cheap.

You're absolutely right Bill. I should be satisfied with what I have.

I'm sorry you had to sell your Mamiya, and I hope you have a chance to get another someday.

I also hope you're in good health now, and surviving the madness wherever you are.

 

[rhechcapel]

A meterless Autocord from Minolta, cir 1958.

It's a 1:3.5 lens, up to F22, and a 1/400th top speed, but it's one of the nicest lens/shutters you can have on a proper TLR, has a great viewfinder which can be upgraded, focus lever center bottom of the taking lens, Bay 1 filters and for tripod use, there is a focus& lift platform from Minolta that puts the taking lens where the focus lens was a moment before.

Minolta also mad a one-piece polarize assembly and several other pieces of gear.

Bay 1 filters or threaded filter adapters are fairly common, and less expensive than larger bay filters, so a good set of ND filters, to compensate for the slower top speed of 400 of a second is a non issue, so far as shooting on a bright day or harsh light, and it is simple to operate.

The weakness of the Minolta Autocord(s), is the focus lever, which was made out of pot metal, and you will see examples for sale, with this broken off, so beware, however, with proper usage, mine has lasted my entire 62 years, and will likely be around for one more generation of use.

The Minolta loads from the top, which is touted as an advantage by some, is simpler to work on than Rolli TLRs, and a better lens and camera than all but, perhaps a few of those make, IMO and others.

The Winder is smooth and the shutter is so silent, it mad my Leica IIIc sound like a truck door being closed.e

Look at the galleries and TLR threads and you will soon see, this very inexpensive, quality camera, makes beautiful images, and is head and shoulder above other popular brands, (no insult intended) such as any of the over priced Yashicas.

With a full set of Colour Contrast filters, the NDs and a good Popularizer plus set of bay 1 hoods, you will have a fine camera that is only about $300US, tops.

Do no take my word for it or fail under the impression that the Rolli TLRs are the only Superior, lens/camera combinations, really Look at Autocord Pics by capable photographers on the internet (there are always folks that could no focus and compose with if their lives depended on it) and let that show you the way.

IMO, Cheers

Wow, thank you for the detailed response Eli! I will absolutely check out the Autocord. Bless you.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

You're absolutely right Bill. I should be satisfied with what I have.

I'm sorry you had to sell your Mamiya, and I hope you have a chance to get another someday.

I also hope you're in good health now, and surviving the madness wherever you are.

I'm Chris, not Bill. I'm never going to be in good health. I have been very sick as long as I have lived; my earliest memories are being in the hospital many times after having epileptic seizures. I had a stroke at 37, and am 44 now. I have so far avoided Corona virus, which would likely kill me since my immune system has never been strong. The last infection I got was an antibacterial lung infection a few yrs ago that nearly killed me. Took 6 months of antibiotics and a stay in the hospital to cure it.

I'm in a place called Fort Wayne, Indiana. You can see my photos of the place, which I have spent 25 years documenting, on my "New Photos From Fort Wayne" thread.

 

[rhechcapel]

I'm Chris, not Bill. I'm never going to be in good health. I have been very sick as long as I have lived; my earliest memories are being in the hospital many times after having epileptic seizures. I had a stroke at 37, and am 44 now. I have so far avoided Corona virus, which would likely kill me since my immune system has never been strong. The last infection I got was an antibacterial lung infection a few yrs ago that nearly killed me. Took 6 months of antibiotics and a stay in the hospital to cure it.


I'm in a place called Fort Wayne, Indiana. You can see my photos of the place, which I have spent 25 years documenting, on my "New Photos From Fort Wayne" thread.

Sorry Chris.
I love your work.

Do you have a print of this I could buy? https://chriscrawfordphoto.com/chris-details.php?product=1632

 

[campy]

I second the Minolta Autocord, but if you want a 2.8 I would go with the Rolleiflex 2.8C. They can be bought for about $500 if you are willing to wait for one, but factor in a cleaning also.

 

[lynnb]

If you want character in your lens, consider smearing some Vaseline on a filter. Or do what Duane Michals did - use nose oil!

I don't have the Autocord but I'd still recommend it. Also consider the Yashica 635 or Meopta Flexaret, in that order. The 124Gs are good - I have one - but with a more complex, and perhaps fragile, film advance mechanism.

 

[chipgreenberg]

I third the Minolta Autcord. I love the lens on mine. I have been shooting i wide open quite a bit and am always please with the results. Good build quality. I like the fact is doesn't curl the film as sometimes film sits in mine for a while. I love all things Zeiss but no Rollie envy at all.

You may want to contact Dan Daniels who is on this forum. I saw a post from him recently he was coming into a small hoard of Autocords. Dan did a great job CLAing mine

 

[Huss]

I have 2 Rolleiflexes 2.8 models, had a 3.5 on a long term loan, and have used a Yashicamat 124G.

For the money, the Yashicamat is fantastic. Excellent lens and a very bright, easy to use focus screen. It was almost as easy to focus as my 2.8GX.
The Yashicamat also gave super sharp pics. You can even find some with a working light meter!
Apparently the 124 is better made than the 124G. And the Yashicamat D is worth looking at.

 

[KoNickon]

The "idiotproof" rings loudly for me. I love the Yashica D, which ticks many boxes, but its problem is that you can make double exposures (or miss a frame inadvertently by unnecessarily winding). It also has a 2.8 viewing lens, which makes a big difference in ease of focusing (plus it has a good Fresnel screen). The Ricoh Diacord G is excellent too, very much like the Yashica D.

Someone mentioned the Yashicamat 124G -- a good choice, as is the 124 (no G) and should tick just about all your boxes. (I say "just about" because the taking lens is 3.5 -- truth be told, you don't need a 3.5 taking lens. And Tessar-type lenses for MF are going to typically be a 3.5 maximum aperture anyway, which is about the maximum aperture you can have for that design without performance falling off noticeably.

The Rolleicords are "idiotproof" from the double/missed exposure standpoint, and excellent cameras. The viewing lenses are f3.2 I think, and don't have anything more than a groundglass for focusing.

 

[benlees]

First thing is get your eyes checked. Glasses with the right prescription are a necessity for living life.

If you want quality and a character lens then get a Rolleicord with a triplet. Learn to focus at 3.5: see first sentence.

I've had many mid level TLR's. Rolleicords are the best bang for the buck. Autocords are also great. The Yashicas don't measure up to these two in terms of build quality and lens quality. None of them have bright viewfinders; maybe get one with a Maxwell screen already in it.

If you're brand conscious and have deeper pockets then Rolleiflex is the only game in town.

 

[Huss]

First thing is get your eyes checked. Glasses with the right prescription are a necessity for living life.

If you want quality and a character lens then get a Rolleicord with a triplet. Learn to focus at 3.5: see first sentence.

I've had many mid level TLR's. Rolleicords are the best bang for the buck. Autocords are also great. The Yashicas don't measure up to these two in terms of build quality and lens quality. None of them have bright viewfinders; maybe get one with a Maxwell screen already in it.

If you're brand conscious and have deeper pockets then Rolleiflex is the only game in town.

I've found the Yashicamat 124G has a very bright easy to focus finder. And has an excellent lens.
This coming from a Rolleiflex user, including a modern 2.8GX.

 

[benlees]

I've found the Yashicamat 124G has a very bright easy to focus finder. And has an excellent lens.
This coming from a Rolleiflex user, including a modern 2.8GX.

I never had a problem focusing (in daylight...) any of them but I'm not sure I would call them bright...ymmv... these are old cameras with unknown histories/ mods.

The build quality of the 'Cords is a step up from the 124 and 124G. They feel more compact and better built; very nice to handle. If I were to get another TLR (and my first was a 124, so a little sentimental) I would go with an Autocord or Diachord of whatever model was available, though I've never had an Ikoflex...

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

I have a 2.8F, a 3.5F and used to have a Rolleicord Va and frankly I'd go for the latter - it's light, more compact, has a beautiful lens, is exquisitely made and has no Rollei premium.