Darkhorse
pointed and shot
I had a Hasselblad 500cm for a few months. I don't know what it was, but with it I just didn't feel a kinship, a real connection with the camera as did with my old TLR. I plan to get a nice Rollei sometime in the future but for now I have a Yashica 124g. I like how much more lighter and quieter they are, and I feel a lot less conspicuous using one (but I also like some of the looks I get while using one).
No doubt the image quality with the Hassy is superb, but it all comes down to personal preference. I like having a nice light kit to walk around with, and my Yashica (along with my little RC) really hits the spot.
No doubt the image quality with the Hassy is superb, but it all comes down to personal preference. I like having a nice light kit to walk around with, and my Yashica (along with my little RC) really hits the spot.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
"versatility" is overrated.
Go for the Rollei.
Go for the Rollei.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Hassey costs more, but is more compact and easier for handheld shooting. The kit Im presently shooting with 501CM & 100mm Planar CF lens cost me about $1350 (mint). I use the WLF to keep the rig compact and it (WLF) produces the largest image magnification over the other VFs. I dont think this is alot of money for this caliber of gear.
If shooting landscapes or bigger groups of people I swap out the 100mm for a 60mm Distagon. Seamless, no problem.
If shooting landscapes or bigger groups of people I swap out the 100mm for a 60mm Distagon. Seamless, no problem.
Sisyphus
Sisyphus
I have had plenty experience with Hasselblad, and have limited experience with the other two cameras mentioned. I really enjoy the Hasselblad though. I like the fact that you can hand hold, use different types of backs, and have an incredible selection of lenses.
Now, the other camera I would recommend or look into anyway, even though you said that it is not for you, is the Pentax 67 II. It really is an underrated camera. It is manuel as well as aperture priority, exposure compensation, 6x7 negatives, and you can hand hold the camera. There lenses are amazing; f2.8, and a lot of them can focus to 0.35 m. The best things about these cameras is how affordable they are now and the lenses compared to when they first entered the market.
I think anyone of these cameras will be fun.
:s:
Now, the other camera I would recommend or look into anyway, even though you said that it is not for you, is the Pentax 67 II. It really is an underrated camera. It is manuel as well as aperture priority, exposure compensation, 6x7 negatives, and you can hand hold the camera. There lenses are amazing; f2.8, and a lot of them can focus to 0.35 m. The best things about these cameras is how affordable they are now and the lenses compared to when they first entered the market.
I think anyone of these cameras will be fun.
:s:
kuzano
Veteran
Mamiya Super--- electronics problems
Mamiya Super--- electronics problems
The Super was noted for a chronic electronics problem where the shutter would default to 1/500th.
Except for encountering two of these, the Mamiya 645 would top your list in my selection for many reasons, with image quality at the top of the list, followed by a huge inventory of used lenses and accessories at wonderfully low prices.
I will add to this that if you really want a top notch, but low priced 6x6, don't overlook the Bronica SQ-A. There is a mechanical only version known as the SQ-B. Great leaf shutter lenses, reliable mechanisms (A or B). Many accessories, again at very reasonable prices.
Mamiya Super--- electronics problems
The Super was noted for a chronic electronics problem where the shutter would default to 1/500th.
Except for encountering two of these, the Mamiya 645 would top your list in my selection for many reasons, with image quality at the top of the list, followed by a huge inventory of used lenses and accessories at wonderfully low prices.
I will add to this that if you really want a top notch, but low priced 6x6, don't overlook the Bronica SQ-A. There is a mechanical only version known as the SQ-B. Great leaf shutter lenses, reliable mechanisms (A or B). Many accessories, again at very reasonable prices.
colker
Well-known
I am in love w/ Rolleis. Best handheld camera ... it disappears in my hands.
not to mention the plannars and xenotars are absolute sharp. from 5.6 till 22 i am in photo heaven.
StanSmith
Member
If you can live with a fixed slightly wider than normal lens then without hesitation I would go with the Rolleiflex. I have a 3.5F and it is lovely indeed and good for basically anything. The Hasselblad is a complete system so if you care about expandability then it is something to consider since you can find good deals in used Hasselblad gear. My favorite lens for the 'blad is the 60mm Distagon. Mate that with the 100mm or 120mm and there is nothing else to want, except for the SWC. A slippery slope! That said, I do prefer rangefinders (and that's why I am here) and would recommend you look into the Bronica RF - the body is small and tough, the lenses are excellent.
Merkin
For the Weekend
Wow, thanks for the wealth of replies, guys. I will try to take points one at a time, and if I forget anything, I will come back to it later.
As to the MF rangefinders- My shooting style with MF is quite different from my style with 35mm. With my Leicas, I am perfectly happy to just set the lens to the hyperfocal distance and shoot away, sometimes from the hip if I feel I need to be stealthy. While composition is always important to me, getting the shot is more important than precise composition when I shoot 35mm. On the other hand, with MF, I work much more slowly and with greater precision. I want my shots to be framed as perfectly as possible, and my focus to be as precise as possible. Also, I like to do LONG exposure night shots, which I find to be a lot easier with an SLR/TLR design, as rangefinder framelines tend to be a bit too dim for me to see well when it is very dark out. When I shoot MF, I tend to already have my exact shots pre-visualized, and I am going out with a specific purpose, so weight isn't as much of a factor, as I don't tend to carry a MF all day. Hence, at the moment, a MF rangefinder isn't the camera for me. I am sure that one of these days, I would love to get one, but I don't have a great need for one right now.
The Mamiya RZ67- Even though every image I have ever seen that was made with this camera was stunning, it is just a bit too large and heavy for me.
As to Lenses- Even if I do get a Hassy or a Mamiya, I will be sticking to one lens, either the planar or the mamiya f/1.9, at least for the foreseeable future. For the type of shooting I do, I have never missed a shot with MF using just a normal lens.
As to the Bronica SQ-A- I read somewhere that the Bronicas do not have a Bulb setting, and that is why I have ruled them out, is that actually the case?
As to electrical issues and other problems with the Mamiya 645: Are there any early warning signs of problems, or do they just give up one day? If I go with the Mamiya, is there anything specific I should look for to avoid getting a bad one?
Thanks again, this is a very tough question for me, and I appreciate your help and insight. I am glad I have another month or two before I need to make a decision.
As to the MF rangefinders- My shooting style with MF is quite different from my style with 35mm. With my Leicas, I am perfectly happy to just set the lens to the hyperfocal distance and shoot away, sometimes from the hip if I feel I need to be stealthy. While composition is always important to me, getting the shot is more important than precise composition when I shoot 35mm. On the other hand, with MF, I work much more slowly and with greater precision. I want my shots to be framed as perfectly as possible, and my focus to be as precise as possible. Also, I like to do LONG exposure night shots, which I find to be a lot easier with an SLR/TLR design, as rangefinder framelines tend to be a bit too dim for me to see well when it is very dark out. When I shoot MF, I tend to already have my exact shots pre-visualized, and I am going out with a specific purpose, so weight isn't as much of a factor, as I don't tend to carry a MF all day. Hence, at the moment, a MF rangefinder isn't the camera for me. I am sure that one of these days, I would love to get one, but I don't have a great need for one right now.
The Mamiya RZ67- Even though every image I have ever seen that was made with this camera was stunning, it is just a bit too large and heavy for me.
As to Lenses- Even if I do get a Hassy or a Mamiya, I will be sticking to one lens, either the planar or the mamiya f/1.9, at least for the foreseeable future. For the type of shooting I do, I have never missed a shot with MF using just a normal lens.
As to the Bronica SQ-A- I read somewhere that the Bronicas do not have a Bulb setting, and that is why I have ruled them out, is that actually the case?
As to electrical issues and other problems with the Mamiya 645: Are there any early warning signs of problems, or do they just give up one day? If I go with the Mamiya, is there anything specific I should look for to avoid getting a bad one?
Thanks again, this is a very tough question for me, and I appreciate your help and insight. I am glad I have another month or two before I need to make a decision.
StanSmith
Member
I understand completely what you are saying. I just got started getting into 4x5 large format and plan to do b/w contact prints only and wish I had skipped the MF stage years ago and gone direct to LF. With MF I still need a darkroom to make prints, else scan and then output via injet. With 4x5 I don't need a darkroom to make contact prints. Anyway my 2 cents.
Merkin
For the Weekend
How do you make contact prints without a darkroom? I don't say that to be snarky, I am genuinely curious.
CK Dexter Haven
Well-known
Hey.
I first bought the 203FE, because i wanted integrated metering, the 1/2000 shutter speed, and the ability to use faster FE lenses. I have a Sekonic 358 meter, but wanted to use the 203 on travels, photographing people in countries in which i didn't want to have to try to explain that i needed the subject to stand still while i pointed a second odd-looking gadget in his face before using the camera.... I only sold the 203 because i had some financial issues at one time, a few years ago. Bought the 503 shortly thereafter, but never got over the need/want of the 203, so i re-bought it when the opportunity presented itself. The 503CW is quite nice. It's comforting to not have electronics in it, but i never ended up using it 'in the field.'
The 203's meter is very accurate. You know everything else about it, i assume. What else is there to say? I haven't had any issues with reliability aside from one curious problem late last year. I took it to South America, and when i went out to photograph a man i found on the street, i realized the meter readings were backwards. I was using the waist level finder, and the LCD's characters were all reversed. I managed to read the data, and get good exposures, but i was really perplexed. I couldn't remember if it had always been that way, and was only right-reading when i attached a prism.... Turned out i wasn't crazy after all, and there's a small switch that changes the LCD forward to backward, based on whether the WL or prism is attached. It was a simple fix for Hasselblad, but it did worry me for the extent of my trip.
With the 203, you get access to some nice lenses. I had the storied 110/2FE, but never really liked it. It's nice to view/focus through, but i don't like the bokeh, contrary to just about everyone else who writes about it. Instead, i got the 150FE Sonnar. I had the 120 MakroPlanar CFE, and liked it, but now i just use the 150 with a short extension tube. Never tried anything wider than the 80CFE and 80FE.
If you have any specific questions, you can send me a personal message.
StanSmith
Member
By darkroom I meant you don't need the whole enlarger set up. Sorry for the misunderstanding but you do need a light tight dark room. The film developing you can do yourself or take it to a lab. For contact printing you only need a light source and a piece of glass to hold the negative against the paper. You can buy a frame or holder for that. There rest is akin to making a contact sheet. You still need to do test strips but certainly don't need the whole enlarger set up.
Merkin
For the Weekend
What sort of light source do you use?
StanSmith
Member
One of those incendescent table lamps. Just make sure the light is evenly lit across the film you want to cover. People with darkrooms use the enlarger as the light source as if they are making contact sheets.
kuzano
Veteran
I should have been more clear...just the Super
I should have been more clear...just the Super
I never had, or heard of, the electronics issue on models other than the Super, which was not in production very long before the Pro came out. No warning on the shutter 1/500th default problem, which is the default when the battery is dead, or absent. So the circuitry simply fails. One other thing about the Mamiya is the factory advice to NOT use lithium batteries. Otherwise, and for all models preceding and following the Super, I highly regard the cameras. I really think you'd have to hunt, at this time to find a Super. If it's got Pro in the name, SB OK.
I can't tell you on the bulb settting on the Bronica. I simply do not recall even after having had a couple. I'd certainly be surprised, however, that a camera that was used by professionals and quite a bit in Wedding Photography would not have a B setting. They were quite popular for their wide array of excellent lenses and leaf shutters only.
I should have been more clear...just the Super
I never had, or heard of, the electronics issue on models other than the Super, which was not in production very long before the Pro came out. No warning on the shutter 1/500th default problem, which is the default when the battery is dead, or absent. So the circuitry simply fails. One other thing about the Mamiya is the factory advice to NOT use lithium batteries. Otherwise, and for all models preceding and following the Super, I highly regard the cameras. I really think you'd have to hunt, at this time to find a Super. If it's got Pro in the name, SB OK.
I can't tell you on the bulb settting on the Bronica. I simply do not recall even after having had a couple. I'd certainly be surprised, however, that a camera that was used by professionals and quite a bit in Wedding Photography would not have a B setting. They were quite popular for their wide array of excellent lenses and leaf shutters only.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
- I handheld my Hassy all the time, only a few times on tripod. One thing that can make it easier is to get a cheap side grip, I got mine for $5 at a camera show, didn't know what it was for originally, but it's a left-hand grip (with comfortable hand-shaped contour) with a square base that fits perfectly on the Hassy.
- The time I wish I had more negative when I use 645 cameras: Never. Try slide film with a Mamiya 645 (or if you're super lucky, Contax 645), it'll blow you away.
urban_alchemist
Well-known
Thanks for the answer - what you wrote is pretty-much exactly why I ended up stumping for a 203. I find that I simply don't use the 503 as much as I'd like because of the discomfort of a seperate hand-held meter. As for lenses, I've heard about the fabled 110/2.0, but my only Hassie lense for now is the 80CFE. Not a portrait lense, but a lovely piece of glass nonetheless...
Excited to try it out...
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Go with the Hasselblad - it is very compact, excellent quality, and a 500C/M with 80mm lens doesn't cost a arm and a leg any more.
The Mamiya 645 series is actually one of my favorite workhorses, and the only body I experienced reliability issues with was the 645 Super, but it is a scale upgrade from 35mm SLR rather than a true paradigm shift - convenient if you want or need that, but you don't sound like it.
Sevo
MRohlfing
Well-known
No, it is not.
"Time exposures are made with the time exposure lever on the lens, regardless of the setting on the shutter speed scale."
See http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica/bronica_sq-ai/bronica_sq-ai.htm
Also, on the camera's speed scale you can set shutter speeds up to 16 seconds and B (which will drain battery power, not recommended for times longer than 1 minute).
Merkin
For the Weekend
So I assume that it isn't a good camera to choose if you plan on doing hours long exposures with a cable release?