KM-25
Well-known
I am not saying his way is the right way, but it does put a spotlight on what is really wrong in photography today, the fact that what the general public thinks is a good photograph is changing because of the online "Great Capture" clubs. Let's not even talk about the loss of jobs for otherwise talented and driven shooters, let's talk about the loss of the value of a photograph bearing witness to the triumphs and tragedies of our lives, the brilliant narrative pre-digital and pre-Internet that changed the course of individuals, societies and the world for that matter, regardless of genre.
This goes so far beyond photography too, the value of everything in a moral scope being reduced to utter commentary based chaos....
And like it or not, it is just one more site or Internet attitude that is free to roam and slander on the net just like any other hobby, political or other forum for that matter, this is nothing new. Have you ever taken the time to actually read the comments below the news stories on Yahoo....?.....pretty disgusting if not downright scary.
This is the way the world works now, the Internet being in my opinion, the single most destructive tool of society I have ever come to witness. People have been murdered because of it, committed suicide over it and millions of jobs and personal income lost because of it. For all the good that the Internet does in bringing us in touch with more people.....just how in touch are we?
I am not condoning what this person is doing, but I am asking when is the "Emperor's New Clothes" effect within online communities going to stop......?......if ever???
It is simply not good for the arts and not good for anyone for that matter...
This goes so far beyond photography too, the value of everything in a moral scope being reduced to utter commentary based chaos....
And like it or not, it is just one more site or Internet attitude that is free to roam and slander on the net just like any other hobby, political or other forum for that matter, this is nothing new. Have you ever taken the time to actually read the comments below the news stories on Yahoo....?.....pretty disgusting if not downright scary.
This is the way the world works now, the Internet being in my opinion, the single most destructive tool of society I have ever come to witness. People have been murdered because of it, committed suicide over it and millions of jobs and personal income lost because of it. For all the good that the Internet does in bringing us in touch with more people.....just how in touch are we?
I am not condoning what this person is doing, but I am asking when is the "Emperor's New Clothes" effect within online communities going to stop......?......if ever???
It is simply not good for the arts and not good for anyone for that matter...
leicashot
Well-known
All that is lacking is EDUCATION. The internet has propelled people into the future too quickly with the ease of accessing information. These people with the new found passion for photography need to be educated, not humiliated.
These people being targeted, many of which 'are' contributing to the destruction of the industry should not be humiliated in this way. There is NO PROOF that these individuals are guilty. The ONLY guilty party is the author attacking them and their work, randomly and contributing to the horrid state of the internet, and this can only lead to all the negative effects you just stated.
What people are gaining by supporting this won't make their pictures any better, and nor will it help with the state of the photography industry as a profession. There is no 'black & white' (pardon...) when it comes to a good photography. A good photograph is a picture that brings enjoyment, and no one has the right to judge this openly, negatively one-sided in an open forum, no one.
- This site is not messing with people's pictures, it's messing with people's lives.
These people being targeted, many of which 'are' contributing to the destruction of the industry should not be humiliated in this way. There is NO PROOF that these individuals are guilty. The ONLY guilty party is the author attacking them and their work, randomly and contributing to the horrid state of the internet, and this can only lead to all the negative effects you just stated.
What people are gaining by supporting this won't make their pictures any better, and nor will it help with the state of the photography industry as a profession. There is no 'black & white' (pardon...) when it comes to a good photography. A good photograph is a picture that brings enjoyment, and no one has the right to judge this openly, negatively one-sided in an open forum, no one.
- This site is not messing with people's pictures, it's messing with people's lives.
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wgerrard
Veteran
Most photos have always been junk. Unless we were related to the photographer, we just couldn't see them. It's easy to publish on the web. So people do.
Only a very tiny fraction of the human race think photography is an art. For everyone else it is just a way of taking pictures.
I don't care if my photos are 'art'. I like taking pictures. I like to look at them. If someone thinks the purpose of photography is to produce art, they won't have much to look at.
Colin Corneau
Colin Corneau
The site was a lark, a bit of a sarcastic swipe at what most photographers can agree is an epidemic of do-it-yourselfers who not only do awful work but make life that much harder for talented professionals.
I'll say it again: It. Was. A. Lark.
The wheezing and "whither decency..?" bloviating is kind of hilarious but grows sad a lot more quickly than that site does.
Come on folks, it was meant as a bit of junk food...have a laugh for a minute, and then move on.
I'll say it again: It. Was. A. Lark.
The wheezing and "whither decency..?" bloviating is kind of hilarious but grows sad a lot more quickly than that site does.
Come on folks, it was meant as a bit of junk food...have a laugh for a minute, and then move on.
KM-25
Well-known
What the online world of photography needs....desperately, is a place that gives real critique. Where respected people in the art and photo world can come and be guests and give truly valuable input and not fear backlash.
This would be a place to post photographs without ANY discussion of gear, with clearly defined areas or genres, IE, no photoshop allowed, just your straight out of camera shot, for art or PJ sake with perhaps a CGI area for that kind of art.
This would be a place that in order to even get in, like a top notch workshop or school, you would need a portfolio review. If a photographer wants to become better, he or she will generally forgo the great capture clubs as many do who are serious. But in order to educate people like you have stated, there has to be a new way of showing work and getting real critique. Frankly I am very surprised that a place like ICP or other well respected institutions have not engaged in this. By not doing so, they are running the risk of losing enrollment.
Burn Magazine is about the only place I know that is combating mediocrity in the photography world. I am disappointed that the most popular places to post photos are places that lack any real education or critique.
For the record, RFF has better photography than most compared to other online forums, but it is still a gear centric place so I can only take so much of it too before I have to come up for air.
Kristian, how do we educate people who are utterly addicted to hearing nothing but great capture and would fall into a dark space if they were to hear the truth? We can't force this education on these people who want to think they are good no matter what...
I think we are too late, the effects of Flickr, Facebook, etc are unstoppable at this point...
This would be a place to post photographs without ANY discussion of gear, with clearly defined areas or genres, IE, no photoshop allowed, just your straight out of camera shot, for art or PJ sake with perhaps a CGI area for that kind of art.
This would be a place that in order to even get in, like a top notch workshop or school, you would need a portfolio review. If a photographer wants to become better, he or she will generally forgo the great capture clubs as many do who are serious. But in order to educate people like you have stated, there has to be a new way of showing work and getting real critique. Frankly I am very surprised that a place like ICP or other well respected institutions have not engaged in this. By not doing so, they are running the risk of losing enrollment.
Burn Magazine is about the only place I know that is combating mediocrity in the photography world. I am disappointed that the most popular places to post photos are places that lack any real education or critique.
For the record, RFF has better photography than most compared to other online forums, but it is still a gear centric place so I can only take so much of it too before I have to come up for air.
Kristian, how do we educate people who are utterly addicted to hearing nothing but great capture and would fall into a dark space if they were to hear the truth? We can't force this education on these people who want to think they are good no matter what...
I think we are too late, the effects of Flickr, Facebook, etc are unstoppable at this point...
jack palmer
Well-known
I don't get what everyone is so upset about.This website exposes these"professional photographers" for peddling junk and some think it could use a little "buttering over" or they just need to be educated ? I say they need another line of work. It's not even really funny it's just pathetic. And who cares what the bloggers photos look like as if that's a criteria for recognizing and posting below average work.
jan normandale
Film is the other way
"blah blah I'm good and you're not..." I heard this in the school yard years ago
"blah blah I'm good and you're not..." I heard this in the school yard years ago
I think that the site is a commercial site to sell advertising for commercial sites like Walmart and to sell their logo'd T-shirts, and coffee mugs. My guess is the whole thing is just a marketing ploy using feeds and encouraging people to send in links to bad photography. Maybe these guys need money for SD cards or something. Who knows?
I couldn't even get interested in reading it. It's going to wither away. It's a one trick pony and it's incredibly boring. I'm not even interested in seeing their original work. Meh
later
"blah blah I'm good and you're not..." I heard this in the school yard years ago
I think that the site is a commercial site to sell advertising for commercial sites like Walmart and to sell their logo'd T-shirts, and coffee mugs. My guess is the whole thing is just a marketing ploy using feeds and encouraging people to send in links to bad photography. Maybe these guys need money for SD cards or something. Who knows?
I couldn't even get interested in reading it. It's going to wither away. It's a one trick pony and it's incredibly boring. I'm not even interested in seeing their original work. Meh
later
Tompas
Wannabe Künstler
I disagree. Anything that's published may be criticized, harshly criticized, even ridiculed. It's been done since publication itself was invented, and rightly so. And I've seen nothing that I'd call an 'attack' (but I haven't seen/read the whole site, just the first 2 pages, or so).
I wonder why this site gets so lively discussed here. I found it boring very quickly.
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KM-25
Well-known
KM-25
Well-known
gb hill
Veteran
What about the client! It's the client who hires the photographer. Everyone knows of the client who wants to hire the photographer to shoot their wedding for $100 bucks...or less.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Clients get the photographer they deserve....
It's a boring site, not against the idea of calling out bad photographers but a one page scroll of shame would serve better... unless you want to make $37.12 per year from all those crappy inline ads.
It's a boring site, not against the idea of calling out bad photographers but a one page scroll of shame would serve better... unless you want to make $37.12 per year from all those crappy inline ads.
Ranchu
Veteran
Yeah, um.
The milieu you're describing is also a 'great capture club'. No different, and no better. AD's copy whatever the shtick of the month is just the same as those you're criticizing. I'd rather look at flickr than communication arts any day, because commercial work is so. ****ing. boring. There's more good work done for free in the world than is paid. But happy cheerleading for your little team there.
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emraphoto
Veteran
phew! i thought i was the only one
emraphoto
Veteran
what if it made me laugh? i mean the images posted. i didn't venture much into the comments.
the baby growing out of the tree? i mean damn, that was funny.
Ranchu
Veteran
No, I don't think so, the difference is intent. The units KM-25 boasts about are shooting to please their client, or get clients, maybe a little sliver of themselves creeps in, if such exists anymore. Most people on flickr are shooting simply because it fascinates them. That is a fundamental difference, and I know which photos I'd rather look at, no membership required...
http://www.flickr.com/groups/homesick_alien/pool/with/5923217856/
...
http://www.flickr.com/groups/hellotelevision/pool/with/5377944259/
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gavinlg
Veteran
That made you laugh? I must be soft - I felt like it would give me nightmares!
Ranchu
Veteran
It's a beautiful thing when an ent baby is born, guys. I got a little verklempt, I'm not ashamed to say.
KM-25
Well-known
Boasting? No, and I shoot only for my self, not for clients, maybe I would have more work if I did shoot for clients.
Luckily, I have clients who either buy my work, hire me for my commercial or editorial style, which is editorial across the board I guess. But either way, they know I shoot for my self and they like it that way. I think one of the most entertaining things people who are not full time pros like to do is claim they have more fun than a pro does, like it is more pure or something. When in reality, some pros have struck a wonderful balance of getting to do any kind of photography they want, any time they want, because they have their priorities straight, are more live in the moment driven than retirement driven and have simply bought more of their time back by not squandering it on making as much money as they can.
There is a lot of attitude these days in the photo world, it is just different when you go hang out at a festival, take a workshop or go hang with your lens toting bros than it is on a site that is flooded with everything. The difference being that on a site like Flickr, there are lot less Great Captures there than any of the places I go to see good work.
Luckily, I have clients who either buy my work, hire me for my commercial or editorial style, which is editorial across the board I guess. But either way, they know I shoot for my self and they like it that way. I think one of the most entertaining things people who are not full time pros like to do is claim they have more fun than a pro does, like it is more pure or something. When in reality, some pros have struck a wonderful balance of getting to do any kind of photography they want, any time they want, because they have their priorities straight, are more live in the moment driven than retirement driven and have simply bought more of their time back by not squandering it on making as much money as they can.
There is a lot of attitude these days in the photo world, it is just different when you go hang out at a festival, take a workshop or go hang with your lens toting bros than it is on a site that is flooded with everything. The difference being that on a site like Flickr, there are lot less Great Captures there than any of the places I go to see good work.
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Ranchu
Veteran
That's because they let everyone post on flickr. I like to see what people choose for themselves, rather than have a middleman predigest it for me. Middlemen put out a ton of ****, it's axiomatic. I'm sure you've seen tons of work hyped at you from authoritative sources that just wasn't all that much of anything, really. I could even say most work hyped at you sucks. I think there's been an increase in that occurring at least as large as the increase in creativity by people who don't necessarily have a knack for it. Mocking people like the site posted does, is just snotty classist bs from people desperate to stay in the club, same old, same old.
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